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I tried the British made Sovereign version some 15 years ago and wasn’t impressed. The 4th loop had at least a couple of inserts (not just one slide), and that allowed some of the tubing to move rather freely. The 3rd compensating loop was wrong alone from the visuals, as it was the same as the 1st comp loop.

Saw this above auction over a sample of the French made version and noted that the 3rd comp loop looked like having been given the proper length.

Whether the 3+1P comp system makes sense on a relatively small bore instrument is quite another matter. At any rate the tubing has to be wrapped very tightly to fit within this small frame.

Klaus

How do these things sound in the low range? I remember reading a quote in the Bevan book about euphoniums being a possible substitute for bass trombones in England. Does this design have any roots in that or is it strictly a 4 valve horn for baritone players?

The lowest note I saw in a baritone part was F on bottom of the staff. Of course written as G below the treble clef staff. I am very much into bassbones, but don’t see this baritone as a potential substitute.

Klaus

Certainly. Not for me, I'm just extrapolating off something I read.
I did play a new Besson 3 valve baritone recently that had the absolute fastest valves I've ever played. I was doing all these crazy slurs and stuff that I'd never dreamed of; things so crazy I cannot even remember them.

I bought one of these a few years ago when they first came out. It is a really spectacular instrument! It was massively expensive for an instrument I can only use in one ensemble I'm in, but once I tried it I **had** to have it! These are made in Germany at jamusik alongside the besson euphs and tubas and the tenorhorns and cornets are made in France. Yes, the valves on all the new buffet crampon bessons are spectacular! Very light and fast and extremely smooth.

Yeah, the old besson 956 (and york 3056) had compensating loops that were too short and an odd U-bend made of two different slides in the 4th valve loop. It was a big pain! And stuffy! This is much improved although the compensating loops are still a tad too short for the low C and B (concert) and the first valve compensating loop gets in the way of your right hand thumb going on the natural place on the side of the 1st valve. I've adapted by putting my thumb on the bottom of the compensating loop itself, but I know it bugs some people.

re: 4 valve baritones -- I've seen two or three pieces of newer brass band music that require the 4th valve for range, and a few of the newer baritone solos require it -- or at least have an ossia. However, where the 4th valve REALLY comes in handy is to navigate some of the INSANE technical challenges in the latest generation of brass band contest pieces! I couldn't imagine doing them without it!

As a sub for bass trombone? Hmm... well, it is possible to get some of that bark below the staff, but it does have a small stem mouthpiece receiver, so that kind of limits your choices, and the bore is only .540... Also, the bell throat is MUCH bigger than a bass trombone (bass trombone mutes are nowhere close to fitting) so it really is closer to a euphonium timbre than a bass trombone timbre, although in the extreme low register it does start to take on more of the bass trombone sound.

Low C & B natural are bound to be sharp alone by the math of the Blaikley system. This is not to be blamed on this specific model. Only true work around is a trigger on either the main, the fourth, or the third slide.

Klaus

imperialbari wrote:Low C & B natural are bound to be sharp alone by the math of the Blaikley system. This is not to be blamed on this specific model. Only true work around is a trigger on either the main, the fourth, or the third slide.

Klaus

Yes, of course, but it is even shorter than it should be... Nevertheless, it's within lippable range and a big improvement on the 956/3056.