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I would like to take a stab at bidding on it. What is one like this worth? I currently have a 21j, but if i got this, it would be my primary.

onionman56 wrote:What is one like this worth?

Condition unknown, playing characteristics unknown, seller seems to mostly deal in used cars and parts, feedback is a little mixed. He's bound to pack it up improperly and shipping is whatever common carrier for $46, so damage is a very real possibility.

If you don't like it well enough to keep, supposedly he'll take it back within 3 days (might ask what that means), you pay shipping both ways: total cost ca. $92 for the experience if you send it back the way it came.

For me, it's already around value. Your perspective could be a lot different. He could have a shill bidder in there, don't get caught up in that.

onionman56 wrote:I would like to take a stab at bidding on it. What is one like this worth? I currently have a 21j, but if i got this, it would be my primary.

Just looking at the pictures, there are dents everywhere. Every branch has at least one major dent in it and more than a few smaller dents. There are no pictures of the valves out of their casings so you don't know what sort of shape they are in. With a horn of this age, it would be safe to assume that a plate, bore and hone job is going to be needed. The stem is broken off the 4th valve so who knows what extra is wrong with that valve. Whatever you pay for it, you will need to put the price of repairs on top of that. Wait for a better one or at least one you can look at and try out. I think you would have a lot of money into this one getting it presentable.

Tabor's very similar Conn is back on ebay as well. Perhaps more of a known quantity, albeit at a rather different price point:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-4-BBb-4v-Conn ... 3f1269a1cd

KiltieTuba wrote: Only noticeable difference is the valve section - and we know that the valves are working and of some better quality.

I could be fooled by a different finish, perspective etc., but to me the bells look different - maybe the same at either end, but a little different profile.

I'm watching it too! it looks like a fun fix-er-up-er to me. Somebody is bidding it up, and I bet the price will keep climbing until it's overpriced. The 21" bell leads me to think it's every bit as large as the 20j

talleyrand wrote:Tabor's very similar Conn is back on ebay as well. Perhaps more of a known quantity, albeit at a rather different price point:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-4-BBb-4v-Conn ... 3f1269a1cd

Tabor's is bigger.
The "donatelli's" and donatelli wannabes are in the big 4/4-compact 5/4 size range. And yes, the third partial on the donnas rides a little low.

and the brand has a practically vertical valve alignment. The Don's are slanted.

-Pat

KiltieTuba wrote: Bells and bodies are the same, so yes the only difference between these two should be the valve block orientation - and possibly the bore size through the valves. But if it is anything like the Grand Orchestral Conns it should be around the .773" area

Aren't the Grand Orchestral Conns in the 6/4 size range?
The donnas (real and otherwise) are not quite as big.

KiltieTuba wrote: It seems that the fourth valve is missing entirely from the ebay tuba...

Ouch. It really has already been bid up too high in that case.

I believe you have to read between the lines abit through the pages of the Conn Loyalist to figure out the the models and their differences/similarities.

The 28J(BBb), 48J(CC), and 84J(CC) most closely resemble the Donatellis. Particularly when you read the descriptions. It looks, to me, like the 84J is the 48J, but only came with a fixed upright bell and front action valves.

The 80-83Js seem to be the BBb version of the 48J.

The 30-36J seems to be what most people refer to as an Orchestra Grand and are definitely of the 6/4 variety and all in BBb.

I have never seen a 6/4 Conn CC tuba that was made at the factory. Has anyone else?

The bore sizes varied. .687, .734, .750 seem to be mixed into all of these models, but only the 6/4 BBb Orch Grands (model#?) seem to have the .812 bore. Bell sizes seem to vary to, from 18" to 22".

http://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnLooksBass.html" target="_blank

Hmmm, everyone asumes the CC's were cut down from BBb... But, if the CC symphony models came first and have an in tune 3rd partial, perhaps the BBb versions came later and with the expansion, came the flattened 3rd partial? Just a theory. The CC Donatellis that I've seen don't look like cut instruments. They have a very even expansion from mouthpiece to bell flare.

My Two Cents,
Frank "Always fascinated with the evolution of our instrument" Ortega

By the way, with the 24" bell flare and the big inner bows, that Ebay horn looks like a 6/4 BBb 34J to me. Not a Donatelli.

Frank

I thought that the Orch. Grand models were a .773" bore. and not a .812". Correct??

-Pat

I have played at least one with an .812 bore. Formerly owned by Paul Ogushwitz, now with Tim Hayton I believe.

-F