Valve section 4v
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:46 pm
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.vi ... 1270071070
Any idea what this valve section is from?
Any idea what this valve section is from?
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Re: Valve section 4v
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:18 pm
The braces and thumbring look King. But... I've not seen a 4th valve wrapped like that on a King... or anything else for that matter.
Re: Valve section 4v
Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:11 am
That is a Martin cluster. They used that wrap and that style of back caps on their post-war models. Also, if you look at the answer given to the question posed to the seller, the seller says that the valve is marked 1 SA; Martin marked SA on side-action pistons and TA on top-action pistons.
Re: Valve section 4v
Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:12 am
Good information to add to my archives! Thanks!Paul Scott wrote:That is a Martin cluster. They used that wrap and that style of back caps on their post-war models. Also, if you look at the answer given to the question posed to the seller, the seller says that the valve is marked 1 SA; Martin marked SA on side-action pistons and TA on top-action pistons.
Re: Valve section 4v
Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:09 am
On my 1940 Martin, it appears as though pistons one, three and four are identical with piston two being unique. I was able to swap pistons one, three and four (putting them in the wrong casings) and the horn still played. I'll check the other Martin 4-valvers I have to see if they are any different, (I doubt it but have been wrong before!).
Re: Valve section 4v
Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:05 am
It appears that this is a cluster from an Eb tuba.
The following info is true for BBbs (not sure about Ebs) and has nothing in particular to do with the ebay item, (perhaps more information here than anyone needs
:
In later years, Martin marked side-action pistons for recording bells with an "R". so that a # 1 piston for a side-action recording bell model would read 1 S.A. R. It appears that pistons for upright bell models weren't marked at all, (in other words, no "U"). Top action valves were marked T.A. Martin didn't mark the pistons in this way until sometime after WWII (the "turret" style pistons) although these valve designs went back to the 20s.
On side-action Martins, the clocking for the 4th valve is different between recording and upright bell models. Why is this? It seems that they expected player of the side-action recording bell models to tilt their horns to their left, (as indeed most players did and do) changing the angle of the valves, so two valve-sets were made. There may be subtle differences to the clocking of the other three valves but I can't detect any.
Here is a photo that shows the effect:
The upright bell model is on the left while the recording bell model is on the right. This system was used on detachable and fixed bell models, so that if a side-action BBb tuba was requested with a detachable upright bell, the upright bell valve-set was used.
I don't believe there was any variation in the top-action valvesets; they are not at all interechangeable with side-action valvesets.
The following info is true for BBbs (not sure about Ebs) and has nothing in particular to do with the ebay item, (perhaps more information here than anyone needs
: In later years, Martin marked side-action pistons for recording bells with an "R". so that a # 1 piston for a side-action recording bell model would read 1 S.A. R. It appears that pistons for upright bell models weren't marked at all, (in other words, no "U"). Top action valves were marked T.A. Martin didn't mark the pistons in this way until sometime after WWII (the "turret" style pistons) although these valve designs went back to the 20s.
On side-action Martins, the clocking for the 4th valve is different between recording and upright bell models. Why is this? It seems that they expected player of the side-action recording bell models to tilt their horns to their left, (as indeed most players did and do) changing the angle of the valves, so two valve-sets were made. There may be subtle differences to the clocking of the other three valves but I can't detect any.
Here is a photo that shows the effect:
The upright bell model is on the left while the recording bell model is on the right. This system was used on detachable and fixed bell models, so that if a side-action BBb tuba was requested with a detachable upright bell, the upright bell valve-set was used.
I don't believe there was any variation in the top-action valvesets; they are not at all interechangeable with side-action valvesets.