Nice King 1241

[Dan Schultz]

That's a nice-looking 'transitional' King.... made during the change from the 1240/41 to the 2340/41 model numbers. Note that there are two 1st valve tuning slides (one on the top and one on the bottom) but the 'curley-cue' in the 3rd wrap is still there. The recording bell is made in two pieces with a large ferrule joining the two parts and is fairly easy to convert into an upright bell by incorporating a section of bell stem from a parts horn.

[humBell]

Same seller is offering a similar 1240:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/King-BBb-3-Valv ... 1899963420

and both with cases.

[Dan Schultz]

Same seller is offering a similar 1240:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/King-BBb-3-Valv ... 1899963420

and both with cases.

Note that this horn has a two-piece detachable bell but the top loop of the 1st valve is fixed.

Comparing these two horns makes a good point of some of the subtle changes made to these great horns over the years.

[TNID]

All, I'm pretty seriously considering placing a bid on this horn. Does anyone see anything about it that raises a red flag? I'm absolutely not a repair tech, but it appears to have some solders (repairs?) that may not be as clean as they could have been. The only thing I see that's genuinely concerning is the potential for a gap in the joint heading into the bottom bow, caused by the dent on the back side.

At this point I'm not so worried about appearances, but would like it to be fully functional. Seems like this would be a nice candidate for complete restoration sometime down the road.

Any & all thoughts are appreciated.

[Dan Schultz]

All, I'm pretty seriously considering placing a bid on this horn. Does anyone see anything about it that raises a red flag? I'm absolutely not a repair tech, but it appears to have some solders (repairs?) that may not be as clean as they could have been. The only thing I see that's genuinely concerning is the potential for a gap in the joint heading into the bottom bow, caused by the dent on the back side.

At this point I'm not so worried about appearances, but would like it to be fully functional. Seems like this would be a nice candidate for complete restoration sometime down the road.

Any & all thoughts are appreciated.

It looks a little rough and has a couple of obvious dents and dings that you'll probably want to address if you buy it. The problem with not actually having my hands on the horn is that it's nearly impossible to detect more serious matters that may be lurking. Such as... it looks like there may be some compression dents under a few of the braces. If so... there could be problems that only a serious tear-down can correct.

It's just difficult to get a true picture from just a few images. The only REAL way to know if the horn is a deal is to go play it and give it a closer look. The valves could be shot and pictures can't show that. Contact the seller. Maybe even call them.

[Donn]

Without contradicting any of the very valuable advice above, if I wanted something like that, I'd go for it. I'm not going to suggest a bid, but at the current starting bid price it seems like a great deal to me. My feeling is that you bid on stuff like this if you can afford to get burned, and it has to be priced accordingly, but at $1100 for a pretty slick silver plated 4 valve and cases, there's no use waiting for something better. If you like that model.

But do ask for pictures of the pistons. They can have corrosion spots, which makes them rough. Maybe you can order new pistons, don't know. If the dent at the bottom bow joint leaks, put chewing gum in it or something - this isn't a "show stopper" problem.

[Dan Schultz]

Definitely ask for pictures of the valves. Close-up photos of any potential problem areas might also be helpful.

I've seen MANY cases where brand-new pistons were dropped into very worn valve casings and the horn simply was not playable. I've even seen this on horns that have been said to have been completely overhauled.

Pretty isn't always good. Not trying to de-rail this sale. Just sayin'.

[TNID]

Thanks for the great information and advice. I've asked for pictures of the valves and about the dent leading into the bottom bow, so we'll see how that goes. Honestly, A full tear-down and restoration is not out of the question, but I'd like to be able to play the horn while waiting in line for a job like that.

[bigtubby]

All, I'm pretty seriously considering placing a bid on this horn. Does anyone see anything about it that raises a red flag? I'm absolutely not a repair tech, but it appears to have some solders (repairs?) that may not be as clean as they could have been. The only thing I see that's genuinely concerning is the potential for a gap in the joint heading into the bottom bow, caused by the dent on the back side.

At this point I'm not so worried about appearances, but would like it to be fully functional. Seems like this would be a nice candidate for complete restoration sometime down the road.

Any & all thoughts are appreciated.

It looks a little rough and has a couple of obvious dents and dings that you'll probably want to address if you buy it. The problem with not actually having my hands on the horn is that it's nearly impossible to detect more serious matters that may be lurking. Such as... it looks like there may be some compression dents under a few of the braces. If so... there could be problems that only a serious tear-down can correct.

It's just difficult to get a true picture from just a few images. The only REAL way to know if the horn is a deal is to go play it and give it a closer look. The valves could be shot and pictures can't show that. Contact the seller. Maybe even call them.

FWIW I've dealt a fair amount with this seller and know him IRL. He is a straight shooter and pretty knowledgeable but is primarily a woodwind guy. He's been in the music biz for a long time and so has much more brass knowledge than the average seller. Give him a shout.

[roweenie]

That King looks exactly like the first horn I ever bought for myself (except mine had the smaller-flare detachable upright bell, and in lacquer). It was a very nice playing multi-purpose horn.

It even appears to have the "offset angled" mouthpiece receiver/leadpipe, as influenced by Don Butterfield (I was one of his students at the time).

I bought it new, in 1980, with 4 valves (against Don's recommendation) IIRC for @ $1800 (cases included).

[TNID]

FWIW I've dealt a fair amount with this seller and know him IRL. He is a straight shooter and pretty knowledgeable but is primarily a woodwind guy. He's been in the music biz for a long time and so has much more brass knowledge than the average seller. Give him a shout.

I sent a message last night requesting more pics, specifically of the pistons and that dent going into the bottom bow, but no response yet. Any chance you know how to contact him outside of ebay?

[Donn]

Such as... it looks like there may be some compression dents under a few of the braces. If so... there could be problems that only a serious tear-down can correct.

Like the one between the 3rd valve tubing and the 3rd bow, that looks like it was glued on with liberally applied JB-Weld? That's clearly a dent, and for sure it would be some work to get it out, but ... why? I mean, would that be a cause for regret later? As opposed to a regrettable imperfection that's clearly shown up front in the pictures, but would it be expected to interfere with the production of excellent tuba noises? The eternal question, I suppose, but I'd be more worried about the little nick in the leadpipe next to the receiver. Not that it would likely be a big problem either, but looks proportionately larger than the 3rd bow dent.

As for getting word to the seller ... I would not worry, he's apparently a pro and presumably reads his mail. The logistics of getting a good picture of the pistons on a couple days notice may or may not work out, but you'll get them if he can get them. Don't bid until the very end anyway. Decide how much it's worth to you at the very most, and bid that amount in the closing seconds. However much you bid, what you pay depends only on the next highest bid, so there's no reason to bid less than the maximum you're willing to pay, and there's no reason to get into a bidding war with some other fool.

[TNID]

Thanks very much for all the helpful input. I ended up winning this auction and I'm really looking forward to getting back to playing after being out of the game for a little while.

[Donn]

Keep us posted on how it works out.