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lost wrote:That's a seller who knows what they have.

?????????

roweenie wrote:

lost wrote:That's a seller who knows what they have.

?????????

He knows the mythological status of these horns which is why he wants $5k for an upright valve BBb really old tuba.

Now.... anyone ever played one of these? Do the ACTUALLY play well or are they all hype? Are they quirky with intonation or response?

kmorgancraw wrote:

roweenie wrote:

lost wrote:That's a seller who knows what they have.

?????????

He knows the mythological status of these horns which is why he wants $5k for an upright valve BBb really old tuba.

Now.... anyone ever played one of these? Do the ACTUALLY play well or are they all hype? Are they quirky with intonation or response?

I'm hoping that Mr. Lost was exercising a little bit of sarcasm in his comment.

York tubas, generally speaking (and in my own very-personal experience), have some quirky (yet less so than other "old brand" tubas) notes. The reward for dealing with these notes is the beautiful tone they provide.

However, it IS; 1) top-action, 2) in BB flat, 3) old, AND 4) not the same model as the much more sought-after 6/4 sized Model 91.

$5000, maybe divided by 7, is likely more accurate.

5000 divided by 7? So a more fair price would be $714?

roweenie wrote:maybe

I have yet to see one of these sell for more than $800-1000.

What it's worth to you, is another matter, entirely.

Although not "time capsule" quality, this is still in WOW shape for its age, with no obvious damage or repair that I can see. Does that justify the price? I dunno, but it sure doesn't hurt it!

Blah, blah, blah...

"Or best offer."

lost wrote:My comment was not sarcastic. There is a passionate group of york collectors.

Yes, I know. I'm one of them.

lost wrote: Considering 4 valve front action yorks never see the light of day...this is the next best thing!

First half, true, second half, your opinion, not mine.

lost wrote: I don't buy the 6/4 valued more. Ask zach selling his 91.

This is absolutely not true, according to the evidence I've seen. I watch for these horns very closely; going rate for the 91 is usually in the $3000 range; I've never seen a York 33 go for over $1000. Although it's quite possible (and I'll concede) that one in really great shape may command a little more than that, it doesn't approach the prices asked (and received) for the Model 91.

As far as Zach is concerned, I've been watching his story, too. It's not exactly a great idea to very publicly buy a horn (every single stage of that saga was serialized for us on this forum) for $4000 (a very nice horn, but a tad overpriced at that figure) and then a few months later try to sell it to exactly the same people on the same forum for $6000.

lost wrote: I think a nice full size like this could command a lot. Not 5k...but a solid offer.

Define "full size". I believe those 33s have a .656 bore, same as the monster E flat.

Yes, it's not worth $5000 - on that, we can agree, and that was my point, all along.

Value is extremely subjective; "one man's meat is another man's poison", I guess. I'm willing to be educated, but the facts simply didn't justify the price tag, that's all.

bort wrote:with no obvious damage or repair that I can see

Other than neatly done main tuning slide modification...

windshieldbug wrote:

bort wrote:with no obvious damage or repair that I can see

Other than neatly done main tuning slide modification...

Well duh, of course I meant other than that...

lost wrote:...if somebody wants it enough, they will find a way. I've overpayed with zero regrets.

Exactly, agreed. Value can be highly subjective, within parameters.

lost wrote: The last 4/4 4 valve recording york i remember being sold was on this forum was a large sum that i said to myself would never sell...but did. 

Yes, I recall that horn, too. It was side-action, which generally will command higher prices than top-action horns will - I was not surprised at all by its final selling price. The bell-front feature can be remedied relatively easily, raising the usefulness (and therefore value) even more.

lost wrote: If zach really wanted to sell his horn for the highest price, i would move it to the bay and open it to the widest audience

Agreed here, too, but Zac's mistake was not necessarily posting his horn for sale here; the Tubenet is a great resource to reach other serious tuba players, and horns change hands here quite frequently. It wasn't even the fact he was asking $6000 for it (although that price was, at least in my opinion, quite inflated, which certainly didn't help); it was trying to make a $2000 profit (which he is certainly entitled to, if he can get it) when EVERYONE here knew the transaction's entire story, in intimate detail, from beginning to end, and was recent enough to be fresh in everyone's memory.

I'm not saying that Lee priced the horn wrong, but it happens all the time that people buy something at one price, then try to sell it at another. Sometimes it's because they are trying to flip it and make a profit. Sometimes it's because the original price was too low.

I once sold a tuba here, and listed it at a competitive price. However, there was one specific tuba of the same model, that several years ago, sold at a fire-sale price. So, I had more than one offer for my tuba that was equal to the fire-sale price (or just slightly more). We're talking about thousands of dollars less.

For this York 33, I think maybe it's a little high, but it's a starting point with a "best offer" button. I think it's often foolish to pay full price when there is an option to make an offer. Worst that will happen is that they say no.

PS -- last I checked, Zack's tuba was listed at $3950. So, not entirely relevant to this discussion anymore.

bort wrote:PS -- last I checked, Zack's tuba was listed at $3950. So, not entirely relevant to this discussion anymore.

I disagree; in point of fact, it actually is just as relevant, maybe more so. The gradual reduction of price proves the influence of market forces, and therefore real (not perceived) value.

bort wrote:I think it's often foolish to pay full price when there is an option to make an offer.

Change "often" to "always", and your statement will be more accurate.

As a side note, I honestly don't think Zac was trying to "flip" that York. As I followed the story, I saw a young man who was absolutely in love with the idea of owning a Model 91, and then quite possibly realized later that it wasn't his "cup of tea", for whatever reason. I think we've ALL been there at one time or another in our tuba-playing lives.

roweenie wrote:

bort wrote:PS -- last I checked, Zack's tuba was listed at $3950. So, not entirely relevant to this discussion anymore.

I disagree; in point of fact, it actually is just as relevant, maybe more so. The gradual reduction of price proves the influence of market forces, and therefore real (not perceived) value.

I was thinking in terms of "here's what it costs today, is it too much?"

roweenie wrote:

bort wrote:I think it's often foolish to pay full price when there is an option to make an offer.

Change "often" to "always", and your statement will be more accurate.

Well, it depends on whether you *would* pay full price for it, but just *don't want to*. I didn't say "always," because of this scenario: you make an offer at the same time someone else shows up to pay full price. Doesn't matter who got there first, you're not going to win it. Then again, if your best offer is a "no way I'm paying a dime more than this" offer, then it all works out okay.

bort wrote:Well, it depends on whether you *would* pay full price for it, but just *don't want to*. I didn't say "always," because of this scenario: you make an offer at the same time someone else shows up to pay full price. Doesn't matter who got there first, you're not going to win it. Then again, if your best offer is a "no way I'm paying a dime more than this" offer, then it all works out okay.

Wow, quite the obscure scenario, but I see your logic. You must be an attorney.....

roweenie wrote:

bort wrote:Well, it depends on whether you *would* pay full price for it, but just *don't want to*. I didn't say "always," because of this scenario: you make an offer at the same time someone else shows up to pay full price. Doesn't matter who got there first, you're not going to win it. Then again, if your best offer is a "no way I'm paying a dime more than this" offer, then it all works out okay.

Wow, quite the obscure scenario, but I see your logic. You must be an attorney.....

Not an attorney, that's for damn sure.

Probably happens more in real estate than buying tubas, though. It actually happened when we bought our place. We made a full-price offer, because it seemed like a good deal. There was a second offer that came in at the same time for less money. You can guess which the seller accepted.

I'm not sure if the other people were looking for a deal, or if they offered the max they would spend. Impossible to know, but not obscure... to me at least!

lost wrote:Was taken off ebay. Bet it sold.

Yes, but for how much?????? Alas, we may never know....

lost wrote:Sorry...didnt know real story of the 91! It listed on lee's site for 6k first but i just assumed it went for less.

I might be mistaken, but I seem to recall Mr. Stofer offering that horn for somewhere around (+/-) $4000 on his website, not $6000.

Which one sold for asking price - the 91, or the 33?

If you mean the 33, all I can say is, "unbelievable".

lost wrote:And it sold for the asking price.

So, how do you know this? Did you buy it?

Just curious, that's all.

lost wrote:I asked if it was still available and was informed it was sold.

And you know it sold for $5000 because the seller told you so?