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Holton short action stencil?

Postby YORK-aholic » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:23 pm

Baltimore Brass has this up:
http://www.baltimorebrass.net/picture.php?table=Instruments&id=2781

It is described as: "A used Pedler and Sons 3 piston valve BBb tuba in lacquer finish. This horn features a 23.5" recording bell and a .750" bore. A good playing instrument at an affordable price! Used, no case. "

Looks like the short action system that Holton used. Stencil perhaps?

Interesting.
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Re: Holton short action stencil?

Postby thejester10276 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:55 pm

Why is all the tubing in the valve section crimped above and below the valves? Is it maybe just that the tubing actually isn't changing on the outside, and it is just that the metal becomes much thicker once it passes those points? Interesting nonetheless
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Re: Holton short action stencil?

Postby roweenie » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:34 pm

I've never seen a 6/4 Holton with the MTS located in the mouthpipe.

I suspect it's a Buescher......
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Re: Holton short action stencil?

Postby Dan Schultz » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:50 pm

On the Holton short-action cluster... the 2nd tuning slide is located on the bottom side of the cluster.
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Re: Holton short action stencil?

Postby Donn » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:52 am

YORK-aholic wrote:Looks like the short action system that Holton used. Stencil perhaps?


I don't understand what I'm seeing in that photo, but ... Holton short action routes all the tubing to the same side of the valve, with wide flat "knuckles".
Image

I can take a picture of the other side of the valves if it's of interest, but they're blank - the tubing you see up there in back isn't attached to the back of the valve casing, all the tubing goes in and out on the side facing the camera.
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Re: Holton short action stencil?

Postby YORK-aholic » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:32 am

Whoops. I believe I've made a mistake then. It appears in the craigslist ad that the valve tubing forms a "Y" going into and coming out of each valve. In the back of my head I thought that was a Holton thing. Guess not. Who was it that built horns like this?

--------<I>---------


:tuba:
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Re: Holton short action stencil?

Postby Tabor » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:47 am

Buescher design makes sense. It looks a bit like some Buescher 4/4 tubas I've seen, and Buescher was known to have some really weird looking valve/porting arrangements. I remember seeing on on ebay once that had me scratching my head.

Back in 2004 Mikelynch posted on TubeNet that he has, or had a short action Harry Pedler in his collection, so he might know more about it.


This is from

http://www.trumpet-history.com/The%20Harry%20Pedler%20Companies.htm

Harry Pedler semi-retired in 1930, with Harry Jr. assuming more of the top duties...

Gus Buescher, having resigned as vice president of Buescher in 1929, and Harry Pedler both found themselves without the companies they had created and in need of some effort to devote their energies to. Though both were old enough to settle into retirement, neither seems to have been so inclined. They came together in 1932 to form ART Musical Instruments in Elkhart, making a mix of Pedler designed woodwinds and Buescher designed brass...
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Re: Holton short action stencil?

Postby windshieldbug » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:31 am

It is a Buescher patent:

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US1601555-1.png

The confusion may be that at although being "Art" tubas at least some of these horns had a Holton serial number, too on the valve block but it may just be that Holton built the valves. As noted above, their short-action design was entirely different.

(Sorry for bad link)
Last edited by windshieldbug on Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Holton short action stencil?

Postby hrender » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:15 am

Extra character in the link: https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US1601555-1.png

Saw the ad yesterday, cool looking horn.
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Re: Holton short action stencil?

Postby Kirley » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:24 am

Wow!
That means that on that horn, half the "sound" travels through the upper branch of the 2nd valve and the other half through the lower. Crazy!
The 1st and 3rd valves have a "Y" (weird crimped looking part) that combines the 2 small bores that travel through the valve block. But the 2nd doesn't bother with that and keeps them separated. That means you need to tune both upper and lower 2nd valve slides. I wonder what happens when they're not tuned the same!
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Re: Holton short action stencil?

Postby windshieldbug » Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:35 pm

Kirley wrote: That means you need to tune both upper and lower 2nd valve slides. I wonder what happens when they're not tuned the same!


No, there is only one normal size slide that splits into two JUST before the actual valve. As long as the area of the two small tubes is equal to the area of the large single slide, no problem...
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Re: Holton short action stencil?

Postby Kirley » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:31 pm

Not on this horn. Take a look at the pic. 1 and 3 are like that but not 2.
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Re: Holton short action stencil?

Postby windshieldbug » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:06 am

Sorry, you're right.
Didn't look at this horn close enough.
Still doubt that it's a problem, since both up & down must be open at the same time the note will be formed mismatched or not.
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