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Re: Holton short action stencil?

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:55 pm
by thejester10276
Why is all the tubing in the valve section crimped above and below the valves? Is it maybe just that the tubing actually isn't changing on the outside, and it is just that the metal becomes much thicker once it passes those points? Interesting nonetheless

Re: Holton short action stencil?

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:34 pm
by roweenie
I've never seen a 6/4 Holton with the MTS located in the mouthpipe.

I suspect it's a Buescher......

Re: Holton short action stencil?

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:50 pm
by Dan Schultz
On the Holton short-action cluster... the 2nd tuning slide is located on the bottom side of the cluster.

Re: Holton short action stencil?

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:52 am
by Donn
YORK-aholic wrote:Looks like the short action system that Holton used. Stencil perhaps?
I don't understand what I'm seeing in that photo, but ... Holton short action routes all the tubing to the same side of the valve, with wide flat "knuckles".
Image

I can take a picture of the other side of the valves if it's of interest, but they're blank - the tubing you see up there in back isn't attached to the back of the valve casing, all the tubing goes in and out on the side facing the camera.

Re: Holton short action stencil?

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:47 am
by Tabor
Buescher design makes sense. It looks a bit like some Buescher 4/4 tubas I've seen, and Buescher was known to have some really weird looking valve/porting arrangements. I remember seeing on on ebay once that had me scratching my head.

Back in 2004 Mikelynch posted on TubeNet that he has, or had a short action Harry Pedler in his collection, so he might know more about it.


This is from

http://www.trumpet-history.com/The%20Ha ... panies.htm

Harry Pedler semi-retired in 1930, with Harry Jr. assuming more of the top duties...

Gus Buescher, having resigned as vice president of Buescher in 1929, and Harry Pedler both found themselves without the companies they had created and in need of some effort to devote their energies to. Though both were old enough to settle into retirement, neither seems to have been so inclined. They came together in 1932 to form ART Musical Instruments in Elkhart, making a mix of Pedler designed woodwinds and Buescher designed brass...

Re: Holton short action stencil?

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:31 am
by windshieldbug
It is a Buescher patent:

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis ... 1555-1.png

The confusion may be that at although being "Art" tubas at least some of these horns had a Holton serial number, too on the valve block but it may just be that Holton built the valves. As noted above, their short-action design was entirely different.

(Sorry for bad link)

Re: Holton short action stencil?

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:24 am
by Kirley
Wow!
That means that on that horn, half the "sound" travels through the upper branch of the 2nd valve and the other half through the lower. Crazy!
The 1st and 3rd valves have a "Y" (weird crimped looking part) that combines the 2 small bores that travel through the valve block. But the 2nd doesn't bother with that and keeps them separated. That means you need to tune both upper and lower 2nd valve slides. I wonder what happens when they're not tuned the same!

Re: Holton short action stencil?

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:35 pm
by windshieldbug
Kirley wrote: That means you need to tune both upper and lower 2nd valve slides. I wonder what happens when they're not tuned the same!

No, there is only one normal size slide that splits into two JUST before the actual valve. As long as the area of the two small tubes is equal to the area of the large single slide, no problem...

Re: Holton short action stencil?

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:31 pm
by Kirley
Not on this horn. Take a look at the pic. 1 and 3 are like that but not 2.

Re: Holton short action stencil?

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:06 am
by windshieldbug
Sorry, you're right.
Didn't look at this horn close enough.
Still doubt that it's a problem, since both up & down must be open at the same time the note will be formed mismatched or not.