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York Eb

Postby hrender » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:44 pm

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Re: York Eb

Postby bigtubby » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:47 pm


Looks like high pitch.

Here's a standard pitch Monster that is only a year newer for vintage fans.
https://sandusky.craigslist.org/msg/6098583664.html
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Re: York Eb

Postby kmorgancraw » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:14 pm

High pitch? It's an ancient 3 valve Eb. More like pitch all over the place. :D :D
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Re: York Eb

Postby YORK-aholic » Thu May 04, 2017 2:34 am

bigtubby wrote:Here's a standard pitch Monster that is only a year newer for vintage fans.
https://sandusky.craigslist.org/msg/6098583664.html
Image


That one is a Grand Rapids Band Instrument Co version. I'm curious, how did you determine the date of manufacture for it? I didn't think there was a serial number list for GRBI Co. I'd be interested to see a list if there is one.
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Re: York Eb

Postby bigtubby » Fri May 05, 2017 7:04 pm

YORK-aholic wrote:
bigtubby wrote:Here's a standard pitch Monster that is only a year newer for vintage fans.
https://sandusky.craigslist.org/msg/6098583664.html
Image


That one is a Grand Rapids Band Instrument Co version. I'm curious, how did you determine the date of manufacture for it? I didn't think there was a serial number list for GRBI Co. I'd be interested to see a list if there is one.

You are correct, that is a GRBIC Monster.

I determined the date of manufacture through deduction based upon the history I have read and some assumptions based upon having worked in manufacturing (tool and die maker) in the Great Lakes Region.

1. From the history I have been able to find, GRBIC was York's student line of instruments.

2. The GRBIC instruments were built on the same machinery and fixtures by the same craftsmen as were the York instruments (e.g. they didn't have separate facilities, workers and "assembly lines" for the different labels). Scare quotes because there was more hand work than say, Ford's contemporary assembly lines.

3. I have owned four York Monster Eb tubas and have had a similar number come across my workbench. Through comparison and observation, this GRBIC model is identical to the (top action) Yorks with only two exceptions (excluding the obvious difference in bell engraving):
A. The main tuning slide is in the lead pipe rather than downstream of the valveset.
B. It lacks guard plates on the upper and bottom bows.
All other parts are identical.

4. The serial numbers are stamped into the #2 valve casing.

My experience in manufacturing tells me that it is extremely unlikely that a separate manufacturing facility for valve sets would have existed for instruments in which the only physical differences are in layout and accouterments. Further I would expect the serial numbers to have been stamped during the process of manufacturing the valvesets (the act of stamping will deform the casing so it only stands to reason that they would be stamped before the bores were honed to final dimension). Picture baskets of valvesets being offered to the craftsmen who fabricated the instruments ...

Therefore I think that GRBIC Eb Monster tubas would have serialization which would mesh with that of the "general population" of York instruments.

Am I certain of that? No. But pretty sure.

... so I think: Use York lists for GRBIC instruments.
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Re: York Eb

Postby humBell » Thu May 11, 2017 9:05 am

http://www.ebay.com/itm/152543109700

I been eyeballing this as well. Closer to me. Have even picked something up from the seller before. Not quite the same as the others, what with a +1 and all.
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Re: York Eb

Postby bigtubby » Thu May 11, 2017 9:39 am

humBell wrote:http://www.ebay.com/itm/152543109700

I been eyeballing this as well. Closer to me. Have even picked something up from the seller before. Not quite the same as the others, what with a +1 and all.

Yes, that's interesting. A couple of notes however:

1. Probably $800.00 or so right off the bat for valves if you want to play it.

2. Seller says "Low Pitch" but I doubt it. Below is an instrument with the same "plumbing" (excepting the 4th loop of course) that _does_ play at A=440. Note the "W" shaped MTS (conversion to Low Pitch), you could fabricate something like this.

Correction: Looking again I see that there is a LP curly cue on the inlet side of the MTS so it is Low Pitch.
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Re: York Eb

Postby windshieldbug » Thu May 11, 2017 9:49 am

bigtubby wrote:


Seller says "Low Pitch" but I doubt it.


It has the July 12, 1910 patent High/Low Pitch loop, so it is.

** corrected patent date **
Last edited by windshieldbug on Fri May 12, 2017 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: York Eb

Postby humBell » Thu May 11, 2017 10:02 am

windshieldbug wrote:
bigtubby wrote:


Seller says "Low Pitch" but I doubt it.


It has the 1903 patent High/Low Pitch loop, so it is. :shock:


Good eyes! That loop just after the +1... (and also knowing the maker well enough to lok for it i presume)

It was bugging me that the brace on the MTS was not parallel to the brace immediately above it. And that is due to the loop making them non coplaner.
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Re: York Eb

Postby bigtubby » Thu May 11, 2017 7:25 pm

windshieldbug wrote:
bigtubby wrote:


Seller says "Low Pitch" but I doubt it.


It has the 1903 patent High/Low Pitch loop, so it is. :shock:

Thanks for noticing my correction.

I hadn't been aware of the patent date - the one I pictured is 1904 or 1905 according to its serial number so they apparently didn't implement it immediately on all horns. Another oddity of this instrument (at least in my experience) is that it has a slightly larger bore (.662") than the "standard" (.656") - seems within the range of measurement error but the slides are not interchangeable.

In the ca 1917 front action I have they had implemented a similar curly cue that allows a "switch" between high and low pitch by inserting the crook to either include or exclude the curly cue in the MTS circuit.
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Re: York Eb

Postby windshieldbug » Fri May 12, 2017 11:48 am

bigtubby wrote:the one I pictured is 1904 or 1905 according to its serial number so they apparently didn't implement it immediately on all horns.


Sorry, THE DATE ISN'T 1903, BUT RATHER July 12, 1910. (did it off the top of my head without my notes... )
So the 1904-05 horn is correct for it's date, as is the 1912.

I was wrong. (my wife's favorite phrase coming from me!) :oops:
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