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Stryk wrote:This is one of the most under rated horns around. 3/4 in size, 5/4 in sound. This looks like one of the older hand made ones, too. If I didn't already have one, I would buy it. Just sayin....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-AMATI-K ... SwhIFZiGv2

This is actually a true 4/4 size. I have been playing on the brand equivalent BBb for years. The price for the condition is decent, if I was looking for a CC this would be it. Good seller as well.

Terry, the CC and B-flat versions of these horns are both 40 inches tall with a 16-inch Bell. They are also the same width as a 186 across the midsection where the valves are. It's definitely a 4/4.The Valve bore is .795 inches.

I own one of these ACB-481 CC's of similar vintage (oval paddles) and agree that they are great playing 4/4 tubas. "Standard" Cerveny 20.2mm bore. From a solid no-BS seller.

If I didn't already own one, this one would have been mine by now.

Stryk wrote:All I am saying is that the horn is not quite as large physically as a 186. The bore is equal or a bit larger, It may be considered comparable, but here is why I say it as I do. The Amati fits in this case perfectly.

184 in Amati case: a couple inches of room at the end and on the sides:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/153636433 ... 409168946/

186 in Amati case: Longer than the room in the case and shoved in width wise, but is shoehorned in there:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/153636433 ... 409168946/

Whose case and horns are those? I had an original Amati-Denak case with the same interior for my horn but the 186 and ABB or ACB 481's all fit perfectly in it. I think they made an actual 3/4 horn at one time and built a case for it but the CC in the auction is for sure a 4/4. Interesting sized case.

I just measured my BBb Amati Stencil again, it's actually 39 1/4 tall, 16 3/4'' wide across valve section, and 16'' bell. I had seen the CC version like the eBay auction horn in a pawn shop once and remember it was the same dims as the BBb counterpart. Maybe someone could measure that old 186 in the photo? I would be curious to see any differences.

Stryk wrote:

groth wrote: Whose case and horns are those? I had an original Amati-Denak case with the same interior for my horn but the 186 and ABB or ACB 481's all fit perfectly in it. I think they made an actual 3/4 horn at one time and built a case for it but the CC in the auction is for sure a 4/4. Interesting sized case.

Those are my horns in my case that came with my Amati. Don't know what else to tell you.

And that case is for the "4/4 Amati CC" that's in your signature? It would seem maybe that eBay horn and yours are the same thing. There was no variation during those earlier years of production. The seller has verified it's a 4/4 sized horn for anyone watching the horn or wanting to know before they purchase it. It is one of the nicest ones I've seen for sure, whoever buys it will be very happy.

Like most de facto "standards", x quaters nomenclature is pretty nebulous. Overall length alone is a poor indicator of a tuba's size - a huge EEEb (below BBb) sub bass tuba I once owned was barely 36" tall and I have a bass tuba in F that is a solid 40" long.

A photo of two Cerveny tubas that were built and sold as 4/4 BBb tubas. The one on the bottom is a CBB-481 from c1970s, the top a CBB-681 from c early 2000s. The 481 is around 40-1/2" long overall and the 681 is about 38" overall. The only dimensional difference is in the bell, the newer one shorter and larger diameter. The newer BBb is roughly the same length as the CC *81 models in question.

Notes:
1. Cerveny's model number system is usually three digits. The first is trim level (brass or NS slide legs, etc.) the following two digits are a design or model designation.

2. There was a retooling at the factory (going from hand made bows to hydraulic formed bows, etc.) otherwise, they are virtually identical except for the bells.

As had been mentioned, whoever ends up with this nice CC is going to have a bargain.

Yeah, the old Amati 481 or Cerveny 681 is most definitely a 4/4 tuba. Really no debating it. Same size class as countless other 4/4 tubas.

The little 3/4 tubas are Yammy 105, King 1135/1140, etc. Small 'student' tubas you see in middle schools.

SOLD

I also have the BBb vesion for sale
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-AMATI-K ... RK:MESE:IT" target="_blank" target="_blank