Page 1 of 1

Helicons in St. Louis

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:24 am
by humBell
A Martin BBb
https://www.ebay.com/itm/332529011561
Image

A Holton Eb
https://www.ebay.com/itm/332529022344
Image

Seller also has listings for a B&S tuba as well as a Conn, which you can look up yerself, as they don't fit the subject of this post...

Re: Helicons in St. Louis

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:03 pm
by KiltieTuba
That Martin is an interesting one - think the slide crooks are original?

Re: Helicons in St. Louis

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:13 pm
by Kirley
Those crooks look goofy. I can’t imagine Martin wouldn’t have used proper curved crooks.
I wonder if this was a high pitch horn originally. Still don’t know why the tech wouldn’t have reused the crooks, though.
Anyway, you don’t see Martin helicons everyday.

Re: Helicons in St. Louis

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:22 pm
by Donn
I thought squared off curves was kind of a Martin signature.

Re: Helicons in St. Louis

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:26 pm
by Tubajug
Both were ended early by the seller because "there was an error in the listing."

Re: Helicons in St. Louis

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:50 pm
by Kirley
Donn wrote:I thought squared off curves was kind of a Martin signature.


Yeah, their curves tend to be squared off a bit. But they aren't usually composed of 2 90s soldered together, like this one. The crooks are still one piece bent to shape. At least on the Martin sousaphones that I've seen.

But then again, there is nothing "usual" about a Martin helicon.

Re: Helicons in St. Louis

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:58 am
by humBell
Martin is back up.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/332553077540

Shipping is now offered.

Re: Helicons in St. Louis

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:59 pm
by the elephant
I have seen this on old Martins around here. Those crooks can be hard to de-dent. If they were crushed the tech might have cut and ferruled them to more easily round them out in the middle sections. Also, these may simply be covering cracks or holes, meaning they are not ferrules but sheets that have been bent around the crook and soldered in place. Unless you can see the slides in person it would be hard to tell. The seller would have to take lots of photos so you could see all the way around each one to look for a seam.

My guess is that it may be a combination of both rolled sheets and ferrules on the original crooks.

Re: Helicons in St. Louis

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:37 pm
by bloke
I see enough interesting characteristics...
- re-lacquered
- home-made slide crooks
- Conn 20K bell brace
- (very) extended-length main (and - for that matter - first) slide(s)

I would tend to wonder how long this instrument has actually been a helicon.

That having been said, my own helicon wasn't always a helicon.

Re: Helicons in St. Louis

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:31 pm
by Kirley
Also, weird adjustable lyre bracket.
There is a story behind this horn.

Re: Helicons in St. Louis

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:29 am
by Donn
Don't recall ever seeing a lyre bracket like that. You think it's one of a kind?

Re: Helicons in St. Louis

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:24 am
by windshieldbug
Donn wrote:Don't recall ever seeing a lyre bracket like that. You think it's one of a kind?


Around the turn of the 18th/19th century they were very common items for adding lyre brackets to horns that had not been built with one. They were very common in use on cornets, but I've never seen one added to a helicon. That does also bring to mind the other use I've seen them used for; a quick way to patch holes or cracks by just bolting one on in the right place w/wo solder, cork or cloth...

Re: Helicons in St. Louis

PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:56 pm
by ufonium2
Kirley wrote:Those crooks look goofy. I can’t imagine Martin wouldn’t have used proper curved crooks.


I have an EEb Martin helicon and the crooks look just like this one.