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Collection of Kanstul unfinished horns and prototypes for sa

Postby The Big Ben » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:16 am

https://www.ebay.com/sch/kanstul1332/m. ... pg=&_from=

There are a couple of pages of unfinished and finished F Tuba prototypes for sale as well as some other prototype instruments plus some machine tools. It appears that they are being sold by Kanstul themselves.

Thought some of you home builders might be interested in looking them over.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/kanstul1332/m. ... pg=&_from=
Last edited by The Big Ben on Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Collection of Kanstul unfinished horns and prototypes fo

Postby bort » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:30 am

Also some tooling/machinery for sale.
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Re: Collection of Kanstul unfinished horns and prototypes fo

Postby KiltieTuba » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:51 am

It’s tempting
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Re: Collection of Kanstul unfinished horns and prototypes fo

Postby SousaWarrior9 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:28 pm

Tempting indeed, but I'm concerned about the lack of pictures and vague descriptions. Contacted Kanstul for more information via both phone and email but got no response.

I hope they haven't fallen on hard times there. I'd hate to see them go under.
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Re: Collection of Kanstul unfinished horns and prototypes fo

Postby YORK-aholic » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:53 pm

SousaWarrior9 wrote:
I hope they haven't fallen on hard times there. I'd hate to see them go under.



Yep, that was my thought too. However, having been there, the relatively small amount they have on ebay isn't going to make much of a $ difference in their financial picture. I would imagine they are just deciding there isn't much use in leaving this stuff around to collect dust. I hope that's the case.
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Re: Collection of Kanstul unfinished horns and prototypes fo

Postby bort » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:02 pm

If anything, I'd guess they would get out of the tuba business... they don't make many, so might not be worth the cost? They sell much more of the other stuff.
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Re: Collection of Kanstul unfinished horns and prototypes fo

Postby SousaWarrior9 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:37 pm

YORK-aholic wrote:
SousaWarrior9 wrote:
I hope they haven't fallen on hard times there. I'd hate to see them go under.



Yep, that was my thought too. However, having been there, the relatively small amount they have on ebay isn't going to make much of a $ difference in their financial picture. I would imagine they are just deciding there isn't much use in leaving this stuff around to collect dust. I hope that's the case.


Yeah, I hope they're just making space. The sale of the machinery and the fact that they had the big floor model sell off earlier is what worried me. Hope all is well for them.
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Re: Collection of Kanstul unfinished horns and prototypes fo

Postby bort » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:39 pm

Just saying... California can't be the easiest state to operate a business...
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Re: Collection of Kanstul unfinished horns and prototypes fo

Postby The Big Ben » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:11 am

SousaWarrior9 wrote:
YORK-aholic wrote:
SousaWarrior9 wrote:
Yeah, I hope they're just making space. The sale of the machinery and the fact that they had the big floor model sell off earlier is what worried me. Hope all is well for them.


That's real garden variety machinery they are selling. An up to date CNC mill could be in the 10s of thousands of dollars.
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Re: Collection of Kanstul unfinished horns and prototypes fo

Postby The Big Ben » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:13 am

bort wrote:Just saying... California can't be the easiest state to operate a business...



It's the fifth largest economy in the world. Somebody's doing business.

http://fortune.com/2018/05/05/californi ... d-kingdom/
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Re: Collection of Kanstul unfinished horns and prototypes fo

Postby bort » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:35 am

The Big Ben wrote:
bort wrote:Just saying... California can't be the easiest state to operate a business...



It's the fifth largest economy in the world. Somebody's doing business.

http://fortune.com/2018/05/05/californi ... d-kingdom/" target="_blank


Blah blah blah :)
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Re: Collection of Kanstul unfinished horns and prototypes fo

Postby the elephant » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:39 am

I have been told by people there that they have more sales to the Chinese than they can keep up with. They are booming. If this is the case this sell-off could be a cash grab to buy some new equipment.

My fear for them is that if they are selling so much to rich Chinese, at some point one of the Chinese makers will buy all their most popular models and then drive them out of their biggest market by doing what the Chinese makers do best. In the process this could drive Kanstul out of business, if they really are that dependent on the Chinese for the bulk of their sales. (Remember, this is what I have been told two or three times by them on the phone over the past six or seven years, now. It could be whitewash or it could be the truth. I don't claim to know. I am just the message bearer, in this case.

Also, I wonder whether their stuff is suffering from tariffs on that end. We don't hear much about what is happening to the prices of US goods in China, just about what we have to pay for their stuff.

Fingers crossed. I hope they are as strong now as they were when Zig was still with us.
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Re: Collection of Kanstul unfinished horns and prototypes fo

Postby ASTuba » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:20 pm

Having done some of the early prototyping with Kanstul many years ago, I can tell you that they were trying to get into the tuba business without doing the most important part of tuba design in the right manner: the valve block. The instruments that they have designed have a lot of great features, and they've done a great job partnering with some really great people: Lee Stofer, Mike Roylance (to a lesser degree), Tom Treece, Bob Carpenter, and many others. However, they did all of this using a valve block that was designed for a Marching Tuba.

To the average person, this valve block wouldn't seem like a big deal, as it's not something that you'd think about. However, every front-action Kanstul I've ever played has felt very off-balanced, assymetrical in terms of weight, and uncomfortable for my hands. This is due to the fact that all of the ports in and out of the valveset are on the same side of the instrument, creating an issue that they were unfortunately not able to overcome.

Tooling up to make a valveset isn't cheap, but IMO, the only way for a company to be competitive in the tuba market is to make a valveset that allows for players to feel comfortable playing the tuba. In my experiences, that was never the case with these tubas. I know they have made some great trombones and other brass instruments, and I'm sure they will continue to do so no matter what anyone does to copy them. People have been copying Bach Strad trumpets, Buffet clarinets, and every other iconic brand of instruments for years, yet they cannot master the art of making the copies be as good as the original. I'm sure Kanstul will stay where it is in the marketplace as well.
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Re: Collection of Kanstul unfinished horns and prototypes fo

Postby the elephant » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:49 pm

Andy, I don’t own a Kanstul because of that piston set. Their tubas would be greatly improved if they would rectify this. The three models I have played all felt a bit too cattywampus for me to drop any cash on them. There were other issues, too, but I just didn’t enjoy holding them. At all.
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Re: Collection of Kanstul unfinished horns and prototypes fo

Postby SousaWarrior9 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:00 pm

It seems the horns have been marked as sold before the ended auction time. Frustrating...i would've at least like a reply to my inquiry.
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Re: Collection of Kanstul unfinished horns and prototypes fo

Postby ASTuba » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:10 pm

the elephant wrote:Andy, I don’t own a Kanstul because of that piston set. Their tubas would be greatly improved if they would rectify this. The three models I have played all felt a bit too cattywampus for me to drop any cash on them. There were other issues, too, but I just didn’t enjoy holding them. At all.


I know many a player have said the same thing, including one who was supposed to debut a model at a conference many years ago. It’s a shame, there are a lot of good qualities and they could be great tubas.
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Re: Collection of Kanstul unfinished horns and prototypes fo

Postby Gus_Pratt » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:08 am

ASTuba wrote:To the average person, this valve block wouldn't seem like a big deal, as it's not something that you'd think about. However, every front-action Kanstul I've ever played has felt very off-balanced, assymetrical in terms of weight, and uncomfortable for my hands. This is due to the fact that all of the ports in and out of the valveset are on the same side of the instrument, creating an issue that they were unfortunately not able to overcome.



I bought one of the prototypes, and I think on mine they have tried to address the off-balanced feel. On the prototype that I bought, they have moved the angle of the valves. The angle of the valves of all their production tubas force you to hold the tuba upright which is uncomfortable because the tuba wants to naturally lean to the left, due to the off balanced issue. They created an "S" shaped leadpipe on my tuba that allowed them to position the valve block a lot better, and the tuba then falls into place. I find it to be extremely comfortable, but mine doesn't have a bell yet. Once I get a bell for it, that may change.

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipM ... _I3FnNqICy
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