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Holton 345 BBb

Postby sugawi » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:27 pm

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Re: Holton 345 BBb

Postby groth » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:07 pm

Whoever alerted him that it wasn't a 3/4 size and $699 was too low of an opening bid just did a disservice to world of buyers. We all KNOW what it is, maybe let natural selection just happen and see where it goes.
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Re: Holton 345 BBb

Postby sugawi » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:45 pm

groth wrote:Whoever alerted him that it wasn't a 3/4 size and $699 was too low of an opening bid just did a disservice to world of buyers. We all KNOW what it is, maybe let natural selection just happen and see where it goes.


Nowadays almost impossible for seller to not realize within short time that he/she has something valuable. Seller got many offers with buy it now requests and figured out things pretty quick.
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Re: Holton 345 BBb

Postby groth » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:09 am

sugawi wrote:
groth wrote:Whoever alerted him that it wasn't a 3/4 size and $699 was too low of an opening bid just did a disservice to world of buyers. We all KNOW what it is, maybe let natural selection just happen and see where it goes.


Nowadays almost impossible for seller to not realize within short time that he/she has something valuable. Seller got many offers with buy it now requests and figured out things pretty quick.

True indeed. There have been in the past “tipsters” who for no gain of their own tip off a seller thinking they are doing the universe a favor. If the seller learns on their own what they have, it’s not so bad.
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Re: Holton 345 BBb

Postby bort » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:20 am

Why so negative?
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Re: Holton 345 BBb

Postby The Big Ben » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:06 pm

groth wrote:
sugawi wrote:
groth wrote:Whoever alerted him that it wasn't a 3/4 size and $699 was too low of an opening bid just did a disservice to world of buyers. We all KNOW what it is, maybe let natural selection just happen and see where it goes.


Nowadays almost impossible for seller to not realize within short time that he/she has something valuable. Seller got many offers with buy it now requests and figured out things pretty quick.

True indeed. There have been in the past “tipsters” who for no gain of their own tip off a seller thinking they are doing the universe a favor. If the seller learns on their own what they have, it’s not so bad.


If we see that someone has left their car door open and unsecured, should we tell them or go gather up people to raid the inside of his car?

You have a problem with a person telling *you* something of yours is going to be stolen?
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Re: Holton 345 BBb

Postby groth » Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:27 pm

Apples and Oranges.
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Re: Holton 345 BBb

Postby bort » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:04 pm

It's not wrong to buy items at the advertised price (even if the price is wrong). It's also not wrong for people to tell the seller if their pricing seems incorrect. And, it's not wrong for the seller to modify their price upwards if they want to.

When the tuba sells, for whatever price, it will be because someone was willing and able to pay the current price to complete the sale at that point in time.
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Re: Holton 345 BBb

Postby groth » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:11 pm

In that world, no one gets a deal on any horn. Remember the old days before the net and you could get a bargain? Not the case anymore. Morals are subjective it seems.
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Re: Holton 345 BBb

Postby groth » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:18 pm

Water under the bridge for me, as I have no interest in this horn whatsoever.
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Re: Holton 345 BBb

Postby sugawi » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:37 pm

groth wrote:In that world, no one gets a deal on any horn. Remember the old days before the net and you could get a bargain? Not the case anymore. Morals are subjective it seems.

I can only speak for myself and in the old days before the net I wasn’t exposed to as many deals as I see today. There’s plenty of deals nowadays and if I miss one or two here or there it’s not the end of the world. On the other hand if I’m a seller and someone points out that I have a wrong description I would appreciate that. Now, if seller would put BiN at $699 someone would of got a steal. In this case $699 was a starting bid on a seven day auction and within first hour or so seller changed starting bid and description before bids come in - what’s to be upset about? There are items that I used to put in auction site at BIN below market value and could not move them. Then I would relist with starting of .99 cents and got more than originally wanted. Low bid price on popular items can actually spike the price in the end because a lot of people initially interested in the perceived bargain and do their research and find out it is a true gem here (even with wrong description) and excitement keeps building. It is possible this Holton could of been sold for higher price should seller left everything the way it was.
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Re: Holton 345 BBb

Postby groth » Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:10 pm

Who is to say that particular Holton is worth $699 or $4000? The bidders, not anyone else, especially the sellers’ perceived value of it. With the advent of Google and many other search engines at the tips of our fingers there’s no reason to list an item improperly or not know what you are selling these days. I know 80-year-old people that are smart as a whip so age obviously doesn’t have anything to do with it. Again I have no skin in the game, just think it’s best to let the natural course of things play out.
Last edited by groth on Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Holton 345 BBb

Postby bort » Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:12 pm

groth wrote:In that world, no one gets a deal on any horn. Remember the old days before the net and you could get a bargain? Not the case anymore. Morals are subjective it seems.


Yup, it's gonna be rough moving forward. :roll:
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Re: Holton 345 BBb

Postby groth » Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:04 pm

well There simply won’t be any bargains based on simple listing errors or lack of particular information if that is how it’s going to end up. I had choice to bid at $699 but didn’t because I don’t care for 6/4 size horns. It’s also harder on the resale side of the business when sellers get white knighted about what they are selling. I guess the true game there is me being faster then you at what we both do. :mrgreen:
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Re: Holton 345 BBb

Postby toobagrowl » Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:27 pm

The new starting bid price of $4000 for that Holton 345 BBb is about what that model in that condition sells for. The marketplace in general is a very weird place. There are still good or even great deals out there. Right now, there is someone selling a nice VMI/B&S-made 5rv 4/4 CC for only $1750. That tuba alone in that condition is easily worth $3000. Bloke sold one (albeit in near-new condition) with/case for about $3500, over 5 years ago. There are at least a couple Cerveny tubas for sale around $1000; those are good deals.

And on the other hand, there are ppl who think their stuff is apparently made of gold and price it accordingly. Like the various "York model" tubas out these days. A lot of that is because of the "Arnold Jacobs York legacy," that still lingers to this day. Even the once-popular Alexander tubas (even with the newer models offering better intonation) are not so popular anymore :(
The 'top pros' tend to hold much clout/influence in the tuba community, and whatever they are playing is what is 'popular' for many tuba players. I'm not crazy about it, but it is what it is :roll: :|
I'm just glad I've always liked what *I* like, and have always been independent like a cat :tuba:
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Re: Holton 345 BBb

Postby bloke » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:39 pm

With everything original - and originally put together reasonably well - these offer an amazing sound.
They can use a bit of help...
The low Bb and F in the staff both generally tend to be sharper than other open pitches.
(Some misdiagnose a "flat lower F" as the issue...and - well - a few of these tubas actually do sport a flat lower F in addition to those other two issues.)
An extremely well-aligned main slide (and perhaps a device which could be operated by the right-hand thumb, which would extend the main slide) would make many more of these a true pleasure to play. (This suggested set-up would allow the left hand to remain free to manipulate the #1 slide.)

It's difficult to find these in good condition. This one isn't pristine, but (assuming no bell cracks) is in better shape than the vast majority that I've seen offered over the years...and looks pretty original, as well as "not difficult to step it up to the next level".

bloke "bedtime yatterings...I've never seen this tuba, and have no idea who is selling it."
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Re: Holton 345 BBb

Postby groth » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:35 am

toobagrowl wrote:I'm just glad I've always liked what *I* like, and have always been independent like a cat :tuba:

:lol: I'm the same way, if it works for you then play the heck out of it. I'm lucky to have found my forever horns that play well for me <$2k.
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Re: Holton 345 BBb

Postby bloke » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:32 pm

many posts for "no interest" :D
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Re: Holton 345 BBb

Postby YORK-aholic » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:54 pm

I seem to remember a discussion years ago about whether it was okay or not to post a 'heads up' about a tuba up for auction on eBay. I believe the gist went like this: 'If I do the work to find said instrument and someone posts a "heads up", I have a lower chance of getting it at a low price as, now, more potentially interested people know about it."

And now we even have a section just for that sort of thing.

I'm not voting either way, just pointing both sides...
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Re: Holton 345 BBb

Postby Mark Finley » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:08 pm

I remember that discussion, but I think it was regarding a Craigslist post. For an ebay auction, it shouldn't matter if the auction starts at 6.99 or 699, the market will take care of the final price.
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