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For the Most Rabid Cerveny Fans

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:30 am
by Heavy_Metal
not sure just what this is, but..................

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Cerven ... 0667.m2042

Re: For the Most Rabid Cerveny Fans

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:42 pm
by bloke
some sort of E-flat something-or-other...??

Re: For the Most Rabid Cerveny Fans

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:46 pm
by humBell
I am trying to think if i've seen Cerveny pistons before...

And i'm certainly intrigued by the location of the main tuning slide.

It actually kinda makes sense, in that other Ebs have a 4th valve there.

Re: For the Most Rabid Cerveny Fans

PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:19 pm
by KiltieTuba
I really interested in this. This is a weird tuba/euph, but as I don't know if it's Bb or Eb, I can't really bid on it.

Re: For the Most Rabid Cerveny Fans

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:07 am
by AaronC1901
It’s definitely pitched in Eb. I’m sort of considering bidding on it

Re: For the Most Rabid Cerveny Fans

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:20 pm
by bigtubby
I've never seen a piston Cerveny which does not mean that they don't exist.

OTOH Vitak was an importer of many Cerveny tubas, this may have been a non-cerveny built Grazlitz horn with Vitak's badge affixed.

Re: For the Most Rabid Cerveny Fans

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:24 pm
by iiipopes
bigtubby wrote:I've never seen a piston Cerveny which does not mean that they don't exist.
OTOH Vitak was an importer of many Cerveny tubas, this may have been a non-cerveny built Grazlitz horn with Vitak's badge affixed.

From http://www.amati.cz/en/company/history :
"In September 1945, a Cooperative of musical instrument manufacturers was established in Kraslice. And because the production of both wind and stringed instruments was anticipated, the Cooperative was given the name 'AMATI'."
From http://www.vfcerveny.cz/en/company/history :
"After 1948 the Cerveny factory merged into a state enterprise AMATI Kraslice, one of the world's largest brass and woodwind manufacturers."
Since then, from what I have seen, the Cerveny name was used for rotary valve instruments, and the Amati name for piston valve instruments, but being under the same corporate umbrella, it is possible that a piston instrument made under the corporate umbrella with the Cerveny name exists, or that this horn is older than WWII, or that Vitak ordered this particular stencil, which the company was glad to oblige to get orders for instruments, or any number of possibilities.

Re: For the Most Rabid Cerveny Fans

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:27 pm
by bigtubby
iiipopes wrote:
bigtubby wrote:I've never seen a piston Cerveny which does not mean that they don't exist.
OTOH Vitak was an importer of many Cerveny tubas, this may have been a non-cerveny built Grazlitz horn with Vitak's badge affixed.

From http://www.amati.cz/en/company/history" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank :
"In September 1945, a Cooperative of musical instrument manufacturers was established in Kraslice. And because the production of both wind and stringed instruments was anticipated, the Cooperative was given the name 'AMATI'."
From http://www.vfcerveny.cz/en/company/history" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank :
"After 1948 the Cerveny factory merged into a state enterprise AMATI Kraslice, one of the world's largest brass and woodwind manufacturers."
Since then, from what I have seen, the Cerveny name was used for rotary valve instruments, and the Amati name for piston valve instruments, but being under the same corporate umbrella, it is possible that a piston instrument made under the corporate umbrella with the Cerveny name exists, or that this horn is older than WWII, or that Vitak ordered this particular stencil, which the company was glad to oblige to get orders for instruments, or any number of possibilities.

That is common knowledge.

The instrument referenced however was apparently made (or branded) for Louis Vitak while he was working from Chicago. Vitak was a Bohemian born American importer of mainly Cerveny instruments and was in Chicago from 1901 through c1930.

So unless the badge was grafted onto the horn later, it was built at least 15 years before Amati existed. My suggestion was that it may have been built by one of the guild shops in or around Kraslice, and badged for Vitak's exporter.

Aside from the fact that V.F. Cerveny is credited with the invention of the rotary valve (and therefore likely would have used them), I've seen many reproductions of old Cerveny catalogs and have not seen a piston valved instrument in their offerings.