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Je ne sais pas. Mais c’est certainment un pavillon de sousaphone dessus.

It's certainly a Donatelli era tuba with a sousaphone bell on it.

So, why do you always pick on the Donatelli's?

I have been wondering the same thing.

Frank Ortega wrote:So, why do you always pick on the Donatelli's?

Not to speak for Bloke, but i imagine because they can take it?

It would be cruel to poke fun at a tuba what couldn't...

And this is why I feel a need to defend my positions on the instruments that I've posted in these forums...

Yes, I believe that was my 1918 Conn, original factory CC tuba that you played at the conference. It is, of course, possible that you are referring to someone else, and another instrument.
It does have a "new" rebuilt Conn valve set that replaced the worn out original valves. They were so badly overhauled over the years, that the ports were out of round.
I have since put the original valve set on a cut version of the same horn, just to see how the cut one played, and it turned out to play beautifully! Kudos to Tabor on that one.
The factory CC came from the Northwest and was supposedly found in a storage locker, and auctioned off. That is what the previous owner told me.

Why do I believe that it is an original factory CC? Because of the evenness of the taper, and oddly shaped valve slides on the original valve set. I've sen other Conn instruments of the era with similar odd ball slides, built to move around horn bows and such. Having spent a lot of time around cut instruments, I have seen a lot of bad cut jobs, and some of the best cuts as well. Even the best of them didn't have the smoothness of taper that this one does, nor the accuracy of intonation. What is really mystifying about this model is why they play so much better in tune then the BBbs of the same size?

Whether they are called "Donatelli" or not, I think that there are more of these out there then are known about. Especially when you consider the very disparate ages (1918-1950's) of the model and differences of bell size and valve bore. This one has a 20" bell and originally had a 689. bore. I was also told, years ago, I believe by Steve Dillon, that Conn would make instruments on order to your specifications, changing valve bores and bell styles to suit the needs of the player. I have even seen this size/model instrument as a one piece bell front!

Here are some pics of the instrument in question:

1918 Factory CC with original valves:



The Same instrument with rebuilt valves (Next to a King CC of similar era):



from the back:



Photo of Oscar Cott, member of the Anglo Canadian Leathery Band of 1918 with a very similar instrument:



Take it or leave it, this is what I believe to be the pedigree of these particular instruments. I'm sure others can come up with reasons why this is not the case.

Best Regards,
Frank Ortega

Frank,

Thank you for providing information, not speculation. Thank you for submitting photos -- very helpful. Thank you for asking the key question -- "What is really mystifying about this model is why they play so much better in tune then the BBbs of the same size?" And thank you for maintaining a gentlemanly tone.

You speculate, "I think that there are more of these out there then are known about." Clearly true, and all the more reason to give your discussion credence.

There are always people out there who know more about a subject than others. And then there are always people out there who think they do. The trick is to know the difference. Noli illegitimi carborundum.

PRO

In general, the third partial on the BBb Conn "Monster" "Giant" or "Donatelli" Tubas are flat. Some better/worse then others.

For some reason the CC versions don't have that problem.

There is also the differentiation between Wonder models (Main Tuning Slide in the leadpipe) and New American Models, (Main Tuning Slide after the valves).
In my estimation, the New Americans play slightly better.

Just a side note, Manutti was also a Metroplolitan Opera Tuba player who, I believe, used this model of Conn in BBb for most of his career.

bloke wrote:

Frank Ortega wrote:So, why...

btw...Someone handed me their own at-that-time-for-sale "Notatelli" at the Army Conference (I'm thinking) maybe this last year...It was a FABULOUS C tuba and with GREAT intonation...but they weren't trying to fool anyone as to its provenance.

I think you're talking about the Matt Walters Conn he made for Joe Burton. I'm not sure of the parts used being of Donatelli origin or not...