Re: Copyrights and TubeNet
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:33 am
And remember, the NSA is keeping copies of EVERYTHING that goes over the net, including eMails...
Printed music? For the most part, people aren't asking to borrow a sheet of printed music. They're asking for (or being provided with), a digital file that represents that music. It's perfectly okay to loan (or give, or sell) someone your printed copy of the music. But it's NOT okay (except under very specific circumstances) for you to loan (or give, or sell) a copy that you make of that. But with the current technology, isn't this really splitting hairs? And wouldn't it be okay for you to make a personal copy of your original as a "backup" in case, for example, your original is damaged (fire, rain, beer, whatever)? I'm not absolutely confident of the correct legal answer to this last question -- if there is one at this time -- but you can see how gray areas are introduced.Since when is it now OK to publicly ask and receive any printed music ...
Clearly, "someone" didn't get the memo.Curmudgeon wrote:As opposed to a digital audio file.ghmerrill wrote:Printed music?
Textbook illustration of "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt."ghmerrill wrote:This is a trickier issue than it may first appear -- partly, I think, because the law has not kept up with technology to some degree, and partly because there are a couple of different models of "borrowing" being employed. Even the way in which the question is originally phrased here doesn't directly address what is often being asked concerning the passing around of music, and how that is typically accomplished.
Consider
Printed music? For the most part, people aren't asking to borrow a sheet of printed music. They're asking for (or being provided with), a digital file that represents that music. It's perfectly okay to loan (or give, or sell) someone your printed copy of the music. But it's NOT okay (except under very specific circumstances) for you to loan (or give, or sell) a copy that you make of that. But with the current technology, isn't this really splitting hairs? And wouldn't it be okay for you to make a personal copy of your original as a "backup" in case, for example, your original is damaged (fire, rain, beer, whatever)? I'm not absolutely confident of the correct legal answer to this last question -- if there is one at this time -- but you can see how gray areas are introduced.Since when is it now OK to publicly ask and receive any printed music ...
I think that the correct answer -- in the strictest interpretation -- is that no, you can't make such a backup reproduction. If you damage your copy, you must acquire a new one from the publisher or acquire permission to copy one. On the other hand, the law does permit "reproduction by a library of a portion of a work to replace part of a damaged copy". Only by a "library"? Would a court uphold that distinction? Would such a violation ever be pursued?
So I can certainly send you my own printed copy of, say, "Stars and Stripes" (even the entire set of band parts). But can I copy that and send you the copy -- either printed or digitally? The answer to that seems, clearly, "No."
The exceptions (the only exceptions that there seem to be) to the prohibition against copying appear in the law concerning the "fair use doctrine". Here are the guidelines on that: http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html. None of these allow for the copying of a complete work (or musical part) and sending that copy to anyone to use for any purpose. Even as a teacher, you may invoke the fair use doctrine only to use a portion of the work for teaching purposes. But read these guidelines carefully and you'll see how they leave some areas of vagueness, including:
"The distinction between what is fair use and what is infringement in a particular case will not always be clear or easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or notes that may safely be taken without permission."
and
"When it is impracticable to obtain permission, you should consider avoiding the use of copyrighted material unless you are confident that the doctrine of fair use would apply to the situation. The Copyright Office can neither determine whether a particular use may be considered fair nor advise on possible copyright violations. If there is any doubt, it is advisable to consult an attorney."
(Yeah, well, thanks a lot for that guidance.)
It seems pretty clear what the intention of the law is. It usually seems pretty clear when people are intentionally attempting to circumvent it or violate it. But given the government's own view of the vagueness and uncertainty of the law in any specific case, the answer to whether something is a violation or is inviting a violation is at times very unclear. Whether this should be determined by a board moderator or left to the individuals involved seems best left as a decision by those responsible for the running of the board. I'm not going to even suggest an answer to that question.
You are hoist with your own petard.mclaugh wrote:
Textbook illustration of "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Makes sense to me. The OP posed a question / comment about behavior on the forum, not a question directly related to tuba.ken k wrote:and why is this now in the "non-music/feedback" thread?????
tubenet, "the bulk of the musical talk"Tubaryan12 wrote:Makes sense to me. The OP posed a question / comment about behavior on the forum, not a question directly related to tuba.ken k wrote:and why is this now in the "non-music/feedback" thread?????
Feedback: "Give me advice on how to make things better"ken k wrote:tubenet, "the bulk of the musical talk"Tubaryan12 wrote:Makes sense to me. The OP posed a question / comment about behavior on the forum, not a question directly related to tuba.ken k wrote:and why is this now in the "non-music/feedback" thread?????
k
Tubaryan12 wrote:Feedback: "Give me advice on how to make things better"
I thought that was the OP's intent.
Sounded more like the OP was complaining about people doing itCurmudgeon wrote:Since when is it now OK to publicly ask and receive any printed music regardless of copyright infringement here on TubeNet?
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/diglib/ihas/loc.n ... &size=1024ghmerrill wrote:So I can certainly send you my own printed copy of, say, "Stars and Stripes" (even the entire set of band parts). But can I copy that and send you the copy -- either printed or digitally? The answer to that seems, clearly, "No."
Is asking a crime? If the exchange of said illegally copied music is not posted or transferred on this site, thereCurmudgeon wrote:If a website such as TubeNet allows for the free and illegal exchange of copyrighted material, it is seen by current laws as akin to "aiding and abetting" unless policies and efforts are in place to prevent such activity.
Bob Kolada wrote:My one and only question- why isn't this brought up when folks with the "professional" label ask?
So you don't think asking or enticing people to break the law in the first place is a problem?TubaMusikMann wrote:If the exchange of said illegally copied music is not posted or transferred on this site, there shouldn't any problem, right?
Contacting the publisher for a replacement should ALWAYS be the first resort, not the last resort, not least because the so-called "emergency performance exception," which is strictly limited to educators in a non-profit setting, acting within their capacity as educators requires emergency copies to be destroyed and replaced with fair copies following the performance for which the emergency copy was created.What about someone that is asking for a "replacement part" in a pinch, for a lost
or damaged part that they are already a legal owner of?
Copyright law as practiced is continuously evolving. As an example, the sheer mass of photographic images that are now created by the use of digital cameras results in many more images that have close similarities to each other, therefore narrowing the scope of copyright protection on many individual images.ghmerrill wrote: It seems pretty clear what the intention of the law is. It usually seems pretty clear when people are intentionally attempting to circumvent it or violate it. But given the government's own view of the vagueness and uncertainty of the law in any specific case, the answer to whether something is a violation or is inviting a violation is at times very unclear.
Let's suppose that you ARE the legal owner of a particular piece of sheet music & thehup_d_dup wrote:Asking a second party for a replacement pdf, regardless of why it needs to be replaced, is a clear violation. The principle here is that any permitted copy must be made by and for the owner of an extant original. Additionally, if an owner sells or gives away an original, he loses the right to use any copy he made.
I understand this as correct.TubaMusikMann wrote:Let's suppose that you ARE the legal owner of a particular piece of sheet music & thehup_d_dup wrote:Asking a second party for a replacement pdf, regardless of why it needs to be replaced, is a clear violation. The principle here is that any permitted copy must be made by and for the owner of an extant original. Additionally, if an owner sells or gives away an original, he loses the right to use any copy he made.
sheet music gets damaged or lost. You are saying that the music must be purchased
again & a copy cannot be obtained from another person who has this said piece of music?