Looking for student french horn advice

[Alex F]

Two of my friends have a 9 year old son who wants to learn the french horn and has no prior musical experience. They want to enroll him in some group lessons available close to them and asked me for horn suggestions. I told them that I knew next to nothing about this instrument but that I would check around. I love the sound of the horn but hear that it's one of the hardest brass horns to learn.

From the basic research I've done, it seems there are three schools of thought: 1) Start the kid on a Bb single horn which is easier to learn; 2) start him on a single horn in F since these are the fingerings he'll have to learn eventually anyway; and 3) get a doube F/Bb from the start which entails $$$ even for a good used horn.

I asked them to check with the teacher/administrator of the program they are loooking at to see what's recommended and they will do that. Meanwhile, I'd be interested to know what you would recommend for a starting horn player.

I've told them to stay away from the cheapie 0.99 "brand new GOLD" doubles on the 'Bay. I'm wondering though, what you think of some of the single F used horns from Olds, Conn, King, Holton, and Yamaha. I've checked the listings at Dillon's, BBC, Oberloh's, and Hornguys and did not see much in the student range.

[iiipopes]

I've told them to stay away from the cheapie 0.99 "brand new GOLD" doubles on the 'Bay. I'm wondering though, what you think of some of the single F used horns from Olds, Conn, King, Holton, and Yamaha. I've checked the listings at Dillon's, BBC, Oberloh's, and Hornguys and did not see much in the student range.

There isn't much. And I agree completely. I played for one year in college when they needed to fill a part, and after that one year I ran screaming back into the trenches. But I did learn to appreciate the instrument and those who stick with it. Learning on a good F single as you describe is in my opinion the best way to go. If the child doesn't continue, easy to sell the horn. If he does get into it and progress to a double, then he always has a decent, if not top notch, backup horn.

One caveat: you may have to take Olds off the list, because the "real" Olds factory shut down in 1979, and so after 28 years finding one in good shape is iffy. But the other brands are right in the ball park. Finally, tell them they'll spend about double to triple than for a beginner trumpet or cornet.

[Dan Schultz]

You can probably pick up a descent used Conn 6D double without breaking the bank. I think they are probably a bit more durable that the 10D versions.

[windshieldbug]

For what it's worth, I'd vote 6D also; easy resell if it doesn't work out and I'd start on F horn ASAP if that's really what they want to play.

It's true that the upper part of a double horn is Bb; but using that justification is like starting trumpet players on an Eb piccolo just because it's easier...

[corbasse]

If size is an issue, you could look for the special smaller wound single F or Bb horns for kids. Hoyer makes good ones (they come out of the VMI factory).
Preferably get an F. It's harder to get results, but in the long run there are great benefits in sound and accuracy, especially since the American school of horn playing is based heavily on the F sound. Here in Europe there is much larger Bb tradition, but even then most like to start pupils on F.
A double like the above mentioned 6D would be an excelent choice too, but they're rather heavy for a 9 year old.

[iiipopes]

When I was in elementary school, the horn players started on King Cleveland model single F horns, and had no trouble whatsoever.

Single F is the way to go, from both experience (albeit late in college) and from watching so many others in my school's top rated band program proceed to get top ratings on solos an ensembles in state music contest.

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Con ... 00,00.html
http://www.gleblanc.com/instruments/que ... model=H602
http://www.gleblanc.com/instruments/que ... model=H650
http://www.kingwinds.com/catalog/detail.php?item=618
http://www.cgconn.com/catalog/detail.php?item=15D
http://www.ja-musik.com/seiten/hoyer_single_en.php

[The Big Ben]

I started on trumpet and played FH for a number of years. Having played the trumpet first seemed to make it a little easier. I only needed to concentrate on making the sound come out right instead of the whole fingerings, notes, time thing. (Fingerings between trumpet and horn are pretty close.)

The Conn 4ds and 6Ds you encounter on eBay are usually refugees from public schools and can be pretty wretched. However $2-300 buys a lot of repairs.

Is it still possible to rent all instruments? That might be a plan.

Here's a site with an option:

http://www.pocketcornets.com/html/modern_pockets.html

The author's daughter is 9 and is learning the trumpet. He has her playing a Jupiter pocket trumpet. The Jupiter is reasonably priced and is considered to be as good as any student trumpet. It fits the hands of a child well and is kind of fun for it's cuteness. The kid likes it.

[iiipopes]

Learning french horn is like the old joke about the farmer showing the city kid around:

Farmer: "Sonny, would you like to learn how to milk a cow?"

Sonny: "Don't you think I ought to start on a calf first?"

From experience of switching instruments myself, and having played at various times everything from picc to BBb, the fact that french horn was easier after playing trumpet is nothing but general familiarity with brass. It would have been no different starting and switching the other way.

If the boy can buzz his lips and hold something in his lap steady, he can start on french horn, because there is as much right hand technique with the bell to learn as there is with fingering and embouchure. So why delay him any more when there is that much more to learn?

[Alex F]

As always, thanks for your responses.

I will pass your collective wisdom on to my friends.

[Arkietuba]

Yeah, students should start on a single F horn. My brass methods teacher is Brent Shires and he is known world wide for his french horn playing and teaching. He told us all of the reasons why...it's just easier for them to learn on the single F for a few years until they get their range developed (especially the low range) and then they could move on to double...I can't recal the other reason, their in my notes which are in my tuba locker right now...