United lost my bass...

[kegmcnabb]

Well,

After flying to Albuquerque for four days of rehearsal for upcoming shows at the Phoenix Experimental Arts Festival in February, I flew back only to become stranded in Chicago for two days due to weather and ATC (air traffic control) delays.

OK, sh*t happens, but when I finally arrived home my luggage and my beloved Kubicki Ex-Factor and Anvil flight case were nowhere to be found. It was located within 24 hours and delivered, and for that I am thankful, but I discovered something that I was previously unaware of...that there is a maximum liability limit per piece of checked luggage.

The UA rep that took my report did not know exactly what the limit was (Geez, shouldn't that be basic knowldge for a rep?) but suggested that it would be nowhere near the replacement cost of bass and flight case.

Is this true? Does anybody here know the limit? I always thought that if the instrument was in an ATA approved case that the airlines were responsible for any damage or loss. I guess had it stayed lost MY insurance would have covered it but why should MY insurance have to pay for THEIR screw up?

Oh well, it is Thanksgiving, and I am thankful it did find its way home.

[windshieldbug]

why should MY insurance have to pay for THEIR screw up?

SOMEBODY has to keep all those extra lawyers in business...

[tubiker]

Yo

Just thanks your lucky stars you havn't gone through London Heathrow - insurance claims for lost luggage through Heathrow and other UK airports rose 85 % year on year

go to

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/main. ... ws-124.xml

Andrew M

[BopEuph]

I remember reading most airlines don't insure over $5,000. I remember thinking how asinine that was. At least they found it. I've known many who have lost their tubas on flights, and I wonder how stoopid you have to be to miss something that big when putting it on a flight.

Nick

[Rick Denney]

but why should MY insurance have to pay for THEIR screw up?

If your bass had been stolen, you would be glad you had your insurance and you would expect them to pay for the moral screw-up of the thief, right?

And when you pay extra to insure a postal service or Fedex package, that's YOUR insurance, isn't it? You paid the premium, after all. What's the difference? At least the insurance you buy using an inland marine policy or somebody like Clarion will actually provide coverage. I don't hear people talking about how the shipping companies took care of them when there was damage.

I personally despise the airlines. But I also don't want to imagine how much worse the airport experience would be if the airlines had to process package insurance. And there are enough liars and thieves who would take advantage of them that they would have to put processes in place to protect themselves, and airports are overburdened with process as it is.

Rick "filling out Clarion's form today" Denney

[kegmcnabb]

but why should MY insurance have to pay for THEIR screw up?

If your bass had been stolen, you would be glad you had your insurance and you would expect them to pay for the moral screw-up of the thief, right?

Interesting point, but sadly that is exactly what I pay my insurance premiums to cover. With respect to the airlines it seems to me that my ticket is a contract to safely convey myself, two pieces of appropriately packed checked luggage, and one appropriately sized carry-on to my destination.

And when you pay extra to insure a postal service or Fedex package, that's YOUR insurance, isn't it? You paid the premium, after all. What's the difference?

Certainly, but this gets right to the heart of my complaint. With UPS or Fed-Ex there is a minimum amount of insurance included for your charge. If you need more you have to pay and that't fine, because THEY TELL YOU THIS UPFRONT, and that is the difference. With the airlines there is no mention of this limit and moreover, as I stated in my original post, when I asked the airline's agent directly, he could not tell me. That is the annoying part. I am perfectly willing to play by their rules, but only if they will tell me what they are upon my asking.

But I also don't want to imagine how much worse the airport experience would be if the airlines had to process package insurance

I suppose you may well be correct there.

I would've been glad to have given you one of mine...

This reminds me of how dissappointed I always am when I tune in to "Bass Masters" on TV and there's no Mingus, Holland, Clarke, or Bonaduce (Oh yeah, Danny's so good he never even needed a cable...long before wireless).

Ah, to heck with airlines and misleading television shows...I'll just go have one of these...

[Rick Denney]

Certainly, but this gets right to the heart of my complaint. With UPS or Fed-Ex there is a minimum amount of insurance included for your charge. If you need more you have to pay and that't fine, because THEY TELL YOU THIS UPFRONT, and that is the difference. With the airlines there is no mention of this limit and moreover, as I stated in my original post, when I asked the airline's agent directly, he could not tell me. That is the annoying part. I am perfectly willing to play by their rules, but only if they will tell me what they are upon my asking.

You won't find me defending the airline industry's habit of keeping their customers confused and ignorant.

It may be that the limit of their liability depends on the degree of their negligence. United destroyed a piece of luggage belonging to my wife in an accident on the apron. They bought her a new piece of luggage and paid for replacement of the clothes. Losing a bag altogether is more complicated, however, because there are many people who will collect the bag, hide it, and claim the loss as a scam. Luggage with a big tire track over it is a little easier to diagnose.

But you can assume that whatever the base amount of coverage is, it won't be enough to pay for an expensive item like a tuba. Thus, you still have to have additional insurance.

By selling you insurance, the shippers are acknowledging (and forcing you to acknowledge) that they have no liability for loss above a very low amount. Personally, I would rather have my own insurance--I can read that fine print and perform that due diligence when I'm not sweating bullets about the length and slowness of the security queue and the nearness of my departure time. I already know that the airlines are unlikely to provide anywhere near enough coverage for a tuba. No need for further due diligence there--already done.

Rick "who hates flying but who nevertheless does a lot of it" Denney

[davidgilbreath]

Nice overview from Wikipedia about the Warsaw Convention which governs (though not 100% of the time) air passage and freight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Convention

[sungfw]

Interesting point, but sadly that is exactly what I pay my insurance premiums to cover. With respect to the airlines it seems to me that my ticket is a contract to safely convey myself, two pieces of appropriately packed checked luggage, and one appropriately sized carry-on to my destination.

I suggest you go back and re-read the fine print on the ticket with your lawyer glasses on. What you will discover is that the ticket is not a contract to safely convey you and your luggage; it is a contract to attempt to convey you and your luggage in a timely manner.

Furthermore, the contract limits the airline's liability to either 17 SDR per kilogram of checked luggage (1 SDR = $1.51, as of 4/1/2007), as specified by the Warsaw Convention, or a total liability of 1000 SDR per passanger for all a passanger's baggage, as per the Montreal Convention.

[OldsRecording]

This reminds me of how dissappointed I always am when I tune in to "Bass Masters" on TV and there's no Mingus, Holland, Clarke, or Bonaduce (Oh yeah, Danny's so good he never even needed a cable...long before wireless).

Ah, to heck with airlines and misleading television shows...I'll just go have one of these...

You include Bonaduce, but leave out Jacko? BLASPHEMY!

mmmmm...Bass...

[kegmcnabb]

This reminds me of how dissappointed I always am when I tune in to "Bass Masters" on TV and there's no Mingus, Holland, Clarke, or Bonaduce (Oh yeah, Danny's so good he never even needed a cable...long before wireless).

You include Bonaduce, but leave out Jacko? BLASPHEMY!

Yeah, Jaco. I remember going into a record store across from Drake University in Des Moines when an employee slipped Jaco's first solo album on the turntable. The congas began and then Jaco played the head to "Donna Lee" followed by his incredible solo. I walked up to the counter and bought it immediately.

That said, as much as I love Jaco, I tend to think of him as "the man who killed electric bass." This not so much to his discredit as to the hordes of e-bassist who tried to adopt his style and felt compelled to add millions of extra sixteenth and thirty-second note riffs to every goddam song they play.

Again, this is not to discredit Jaco. He played with taste and his style was appropriate to his ensembles. Unfortunately, his imitators began to sound and act like lead guitarists (but without the end of night BJ's...I mean come on, you're still a bass player ).

I think that tuba players often make great bass players because they have a different, more supportive approach to the bottom end. This is a discussion probably worthy of its own thread.

Oh, and thanks sungfw, that info is exactly what I asking for...even if I ultimately don't like the answer.

Oh well, time for another bass...

[LoyalTubist]

My favorite lost luggage story happened on a summer Saturday in 1983. I was flying to Quito, Ecuador, on an Ecuatoriana Boeing 707 from Miami. I flew to Miami from Philadelphia going from Eastern (which flew to South America at that time) to Ecuatoriana which was a long trip at the Miami terminal...

As soon as I got to the Ecuatoriana window to check in, they were already loading the plane... I was one of the last people to get on...

As I looked outside, I saw MY SUITCASE get DROPPED onto the TARMAC. I only had the one suitcase for this trip (no tuba). As we left the terminal, my bag was still on the ground.

When I got to Quito, I told the agent there what happened (I speak fluent Spanish). They couldn't believe that a passenger would actually see his suitcase fall off when getting loaded onto the plane. They could also tell by my haircut that I was in the military, or they were assuming that. I was told that I would be meeting with an Ecuadorian Air Force official who would help me (he was the Inspector General for all of the armed forces of Ecuador).

So, I rode the taxi to my hotel with only my carry on bag. I had no change of clothes. Being Saturday, the next day was Sunday, and I was to meet someone at church. I went to church that morning. When they heard about the trouble I had with my suitcase, a U.S. expatriate, whose husband recently passed away, gave me all of his clothes and a suitcase to put them in.

The clothes were between 10 and 25 years old (from about 1958 to 1974). And since they were from an older man, the styles were more reminiscent of what was popular in the 1940s.

On Monday, I was supposed to do some work at a radio station there, but I had a meeting with the Air Force general. He said he told the people of the airline that I needed the suitcase because I was on an important assignment for my government, which wasn't true. I was volunteering my time for a Christian mission... (Still important...)

Now there was no plane from Miami on Sunday night. It operated Monday through Saturday. Even though no one told me to do it, I went to the airport on Monday night to get my suitcase. It arrived...

But, I had to go through both CUSTOMS and IMMIGRATION again as I left the area... My visa was stamped with Saturday's date...

Someone thought I entered the country on a phony visa, so I explained what happened. Sure enough, on the luggage tag, on the other side of the card with the initials QIO, was a handwritten note that said, "Found on tarmac after airplane took off. Owner probably expecting it."

The next morning, at my hotel (about 6 AM), I got a message from the general that my bag arrived and I should try to get it before 9:00. I told him I already got it.

He seemed surprised. But what happened was that the people unloading the plane sent the message before the bag got inside the terminal.

Isn't traveling fun?