Stoopid Motorsikle Question

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Dan Schultz
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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

Post by Dan Schultz »

These things are pretty cool! A friend of mine has a dealership.

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120 miles per gallon! :shock:
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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

Post by SplatterTone »

You might like this. 164 mph (that's miles per HOUR).
http://www.kptv.com/news/16365464/detail.html
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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

Post by Donn »

From what little I have heard about them, that 700SC Nighthawk was a good motorcycle. Here's an owner's site with a lot of information:
http://users.lmi.net/gshell/nh/index.htm

He says he gets 37-45 mpg. That doesn't seem extraordinary to me. My motorcycle is about the same age and does a little worse, but it's bigger and I think it could stand to be tuned up a little. Speaking of which - if it's like mine, you should probably expect to buy new tires and a variety of other replacement parts for things that look fine, but have deteriorated or stiffened up while it was sitting around. The tires on mine looked fine, not worn at all, until a few months later I noticed big cracks in the rear tire. Proper function of tires is relatively important when motorcycling.

I have seen a Whizzer like that, and I don't mind saying I lusted after it. Further research led to a confusing picture, with a range of what seemed like fairly expensive options that didn't seem nearly as cool as the old one I saw.
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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

Post by tbn.al »

I hate to be a cold water throwing on person but maybe you should take a look at this first.

http://www.bobshowto.com/My-Cost-of-Surgery.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank

I was standing in the parking lot with an orthepedic surgeon friend a couple of weeks ago when a bunch of Harley riders passed by. One of them reved up his engine to which my friend replied, " Job security, nothing like job security." Crass, but true.
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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

Post by Donn »

Well, sure, everyone knows, you can really get hurt on a motorcycle. There's a lot you can do to improve your odds: take the MSF course, ride prudently, wear protective clothing (you can do a lot better than just a helmet), keep up with basic maintenance like tire inflation. But you still run more risk than the folks around you strapped into their cars, that's obvious.

But the folks in the cars are running a lot more risk than if they stayed home. How often do you hear anyone bring that up? ``Tsk, I sure don't get in my car when I can avoid it, because you can really get hurt!'' Everyone drives cars. (At least, in the US.) Everyone does not ride motorcycles, so it's a foolish risk - because it's easier to see risks as foolish when you aren't accustomed to taking them yourself.

I guess I'm part of a small trend, somewhat older guys getting into it for the first time or who haven't ridden for decades. That's a somewhat unlucky combination, because many of us are getting seriously oversized motorcycles (Schlep's on the right track here, I think that 650-900 range is enough for a large guy and a lot more fun than the monsters at the high end of the size range), and we don't have the skills. So, you do what you can, and hope you get through the first year or two, and meanwhile you get to ride while the people around you are strapped into their cars.
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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

Post by elimia »

The Nighthawks were pretty good bikes. I have a friend who had one that never had any problems except for poor riding skills on his own end :oops:

One thing to keep in mind Schlep - if you are a big dude, a 700 cc bike will be laboring harder to move you than me (160 pounds), which doesn't always translate to the mpg savings. You shouldn't rule out something in the 800 cc or 900 cc range - the Kawasaki Vulcans are fabulous bikea within that power size. Also, the smaller the engine doesn't always mean the gas mileage is better. I have ridden several recent model 650 cc Yamaha V Stars and the gas mileage wasn't sensational. I suspect that it is partially due to having an engine that is moving a lot of weight. I ride the bike that the VStar replaced (a 1995 Virago), which is a 750 cc bike.

Something else I think may be relevant to gas mileage (based on discussions wth friends, not empirical data) - chain/belt drive vs driveshaft. My Virago has a driveshaft. While there is virually no maintenance involved with a driveshaft, they have to turn some worm gears to operate. Mechanically, this seems to be less efficient and some energy loss than a simple chain or belt drive. My 750 cc Virago gets between 37-45 mpg and I don't ever goose it. My buddy, who has a newer model 750 cc Honda Shadow with a chain drive, never gets below 60 mpg no matter how hard/easy he rides it.

FWIW, one of those Captain America sized windshields that Harley guys love actually decrease gas mileage due to drag and air flow. I wear a full face helmet in lieu of a windshield for gas mileage and safety.
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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

Post by Donn »

elimia wrote: While there is virually no maintenance involved with a driveshaft, they have to turn some worm gears to operate. Mechanically, this seems to be less efficient and some energy loss than a simple chain or belt drive.
First time I've heard that one. From brief on-line survey, apparently worm gears have been used in shaft drives, even as late as a 1952 Sunbeam. You have one in your Virago? I'm pretty sure there is no worm gear in the drive on my Moto Guzzi.

As for fairings and windshields, there is a lot that can go wrong. A good one probably isn't going to look like a '60s police motorcycle, and it probably isn't going to be one-size-fits-all, but when it works, it decreases wind resistance and general road fatigue, that's my opinion. A bad one definitely makes it worse, though.
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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

Post by chipster55 »

schlepp, if you can find a 1979-80 Honda CB 750 or 900 Custom, take a serious look. They're shaft driven DOHC engines and very comfortable to ride. A buddy had a 750 back in the day & I had a '79 CB 650 standard.
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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

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My wife's uncle, who has always fancied himself a player, bought a big V-twin Kawasaki imitation of a Harley, in the 800 or 900CC size class.

He needed to get his motorcycle endorsement on his driver's license, so he was riding in the company of an experienced motorcycling friend (who owns a real Harley) in a parking lot, practicing the required maneuvers. He turned slightly too sharply, tipped the bike, and caught his leg underneath. He broke his foot and leg in three places and was laid up for six weeks.

Just after he got home from the hospital, he received a call from his older brother (my father-in-law). "I called to give you some advice about riding motorcycles."

My wife's uncle was in no mood for older-brother advice (things haven't changed even though they are both now retired), and he retorted, "I don't need your damn advice. I'm selling the bike!"

My father-in-law responded, "That was the advice."

Rick "whose experience with motorcycle-riding friends is similar to Bloke's" Denney
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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

Post by SplatterTone »

Years ago I road bikes exclusively long enough to go about 70K miles spread over about five motorcycles. I did so without serious injury. I had some minor incidents of loosing traction and sliding. One learns to avoid anything that isn't dry pavement ... ANYTHING: gravel, wet spot, a leaf (yes, a leaf), dirt, where cars drip oil, etc. Always make eye contract with anyone who can pull out in front of you or who, in general, should yield to you but might not. If they don't return the eye contact, then assume it's because their head is in their ***. This saved my hide many times.

Another thing I did that worked OK for me, but I don't know if it is the best thing to do is, when riding in the left lane of a multi-lane highway, I would always ride close to the cars in the right lane -- i.e. in the rightmost part of the left lane. My reasoning was that, even though this places you in a more difficult position to escape a driver who moves left without checking, drivers would be more likely to see me in the side mirror and be less likely to move left on me.

When I had the 67 Electra-Glide, its rumble right next to the car on the right got the startled attention of many drivers. When I said I rode "close", I mean CLOSE.
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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

Post by elimia »

Donn wrote:
elimia wrote: While there is virually no maintenance involved with a driveshaft, they have to turn some worm gears to operate. Mechanically, this seems to be less efficient and some energy loss than a simple chain or belt drive.
First time I've heard that one. From brief on-line survey, apparently worm gears have been used in shaft drives, even as late as a 1952 Sunbeam. You have one in your Virago? I'm pretty sure there is no worm gear in the drive on my Moto Guzzi.

As for fairings and windshields, there is a lot that can go wrong. A good one probably isn't going to look like a '60s police motorcycle, and it probably isn't going to be one-size-fits-all, but when it works, it decreases wind resistance and general road fatigue, that's my opinion. A bad one definitely makes it worse, though.
I'm no mechanic, I assume what is working in the driveshaft is some sort of vertical and horizontal gears. Looking at where the thing runs, I guess. I agree about the windshields providing comfort; my bottom line is fuel economy so I skip it.

I love the new energy economy - you haven't lived until you have thrown the euph into a Altieri bag on your back and zoom off on the bike.
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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

Post by ken k »

schlepporello wrote:OK friends and foes, I've been out of touch with the motorcycle world for a long, long time and my knowledge base is way outdated. But given the current gas price escalation, I'm considering getting one for transportation to and from work. Of course the debate concerning cost efficiency can go on forever on this, with taking into consideration the initial purchase price, helmets, insurance, tags and registration. Just how long I'd have to ride it before I start coming out ahead gas savings wise is beyond my reckoning. But this is one avenue I'm looking at.

The motorcycle I've found in my area at the price range I feel comfortable with ($1500) is a 1986 HONDA Nighthawk 700SC. All I know about this bike is that it has a 4-cylinder engine (good in my opinion) and a seat style that I like (because momma can snuggle close to me). I don't know what kind of mileage this bike would get, but I'm judging that with a large displacement 4-cylinder engine I'm probably looking at around 34 MPG.
Am I too far off base in my reckoning?
Does anybody have any experience with this particular motorcycle?
Hey schlepp, Nighthawks are about the most reliable bikes made. and very low maintenance, with hydraulic valve lifters, (no adjustments needed), shaft drive (no chain to oil or brake), and they just keep going and going and going, etc. In fact the 700SC you are talking about is on my short list. I get around 50-55 mpg on my 81 Yamaha Seca 550 (unless I redline it in every gear! which is alot of fun BTW), so i would think the 700's mpg would be in the 40's. How much gas can you buy for $1500? Obviously while you may be saving gas on the bike, you will not be saving money. Bikes are toys and you have to look at them as such, unless you are a diehard allweather rider, which I am not. Tires only last about 6 - 10 thousand miles, batteries rarely last more than 4 years, brakes , etc. need to be changed and the nighthawk has 4 carbs to tune and sync, you ain't tunin no chevy...
The 700 has plenty of get up and go for you, although since you are a tall one, it may feel a bit cramped. But how long are you going to be on the bike at one shot 20 - 30 minutes? it will be fine. I also like the Nighthawks from the 90's and ealy 2000s but they are more $ and have a chain (really not as big of a deal as the shafters and belters want you to believe.)
If you want to have some fun go for it. Keep an eye out for the cagers (car drivers) and take the Motorcycle Safety Foundation course. if for no other reason than, they are free! I took the course with my wife after I had been riding for 6 years and finally learned how to ride the bike safely and with more control.

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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

Post by bearphonium »

Lotta things to like about the Nighthawk, most of which Ken already said. Shaft drive and the auto adjusting lifters are a real plus, and the bike is just about bullet proof. And it's a fun bike to ride!

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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

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How long has it been since you listened to The Motorcycle Song?
Well, that's too long.
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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

Post by ken k »

http://www.pipeline.com/~randyo/NH_hstry.htm" target="_blank

http://hondanighthawks.net/" target="_blank

yes run quickly from that one.... You can get decent riders of that bike for around $2000, so that one is way over priced. he'll be sitting on that one for awhile. That 700 SC is a bit more sport oriented than the other Nighthawks fromt he 80's and a re a little more desirable so they usualy end up costing a bit more. If you find a 550 or 650 from the early 80's you can often get decent riders for $1500.

Above are some nighthwak sites with lots of info on the nighthawk line of bikes. Like I said eventually I want to get a 90's vintage one, but for now I am jsut enjoying my little Seca 550.

They are now making cool scooters also Honday reflex 250 and silverwing 600 (Yes a 600 scooter!) suzuki also makes a 400 and 650 Burgman. Yamaha has a 400 majesty and Kymco is importing scoots form Taiwan that are pretty decent also. 250s and 500s. You wont get one fo those for $1500 unforutnately. The nice thing with the scoots is they have lots of storage space under the seat (enough for two full face ehlmets usually) and they provide some leg protections so your pants don't get wet when you go through puddles on your way to work (if that matters to you. I dress fairly nice for school teaching, so i considered one. Still mey get one yet.) that economic stiulus check is burning a hole in my bank account you know.... :D

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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

Post by Donn »

bloke wrote: Personally, I also realized that most of my trips away from home either involve dragging my tuba with me (gigs) or dragging a bunch of horns back here from some school (repair work) ...
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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

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elimia wrote:Something else I think may be relevant to gas mileage (based on discussions wth friends, not empirical data) - chain/belt drive vs driveshaft. My Virago has a driveshaft. While there is virually no maintenance involved with a driveshaft, they have to turn some worm gears to operate. Mechanically, this seems to be less efficient and some energy loss than a simple chain or belt drive. My 750 cc Virago gets between 37-45 mpg and I don't ever goose it. My buddy, who has a newer model 750 cc Honda Shadow with a chain drive, never gets below 60 mpg no matter how hard/easy he rides it.
Two points:

1. Chain drives are wonderfully efficient (something like 97%), but for this to be true, the chain must be completely clean and well lubricated. A dirty chain's efficiency may dip down into the 70's. I've never seen the inside of a shaft-drive on a motorcyle, but I'm sure they don't use worm gears. I suspect they use hypoid gears that have teeth at 45 degrees to the longitudinal and lateral axes so that they mesh. These are also pretty efficient--probably much better than 90%. Plus, they can be protected by a completely enclosed chamber that also provides a constant oil bath for lubrication, so they stay at maximum efficiency for a long time. I doubt that the shaft drive is the reason your motorcycle gets less mileage than your friend's Honda (assuming it really does).

2. Motorcycle engines are classed by size only. Not all 750cc engines are made alike, and the power output and efficiency can vary probably by a factor of 3--maybe more. I just did a quick search, and found no professional reviews of motorcycles online that reported actual horsepower. The power available, and particularly how you use it, has a big impact on efficiency. Aerodynamic drag has even more.

But I did find a professional review of a Honda Shadow, and they reported fuel efficiency of 37-41 mpg. Maybe your friend is exaggerating.

Rick "who would never want a chain drive anyplace that has dust (and everywhere has dust), unless motorcycle mechanicking was a hobby" Denney
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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

Post by MaryAnn »

Ah, bikes. Been looking at them too....there was a smaller Nighthawk that I missed, for a decent price. One of those "owned and ridden by an adult and stored in a garage" ones.

I rode a bike for 20 years and never tangled with a car. I realize there is a first time for everything.

My last bike, a Virago, was shaft drive. Prior to that I had a BMW 750 with shaft drive. After the BMW I managed to ride a 900 Ninja and a 700 Ninja. The Virago was strictly a commuter bike, and it did not handle well; too much rake. However it went decently and stopped really well. There is something called "shaft effect" that torques the bike sideways when you rev the engine; it's not a big deal but chain riders will notice the difference.

For me, the biggest concept (as opposed to *skill*) that a new rider needs is to realize that as a bike rider you are invisible to people. If you assume you can been seen/heard/noticed/etc, you WILL find yourself in an unwinnable conflict with something more massive than you are. For me, I want my bike to go well, stop well, handle well, because my philosophy is that if you are already out of the way they can't smoosh you flat on the tarmac. You can't rule out people who are insane, asleep, on drugs, drunk, etc. Your car will protect you somewhat but your bike will not. If you and the bike part company, you will meet again unpleasantly if one of you does not have an unpleasant encounter with something else in between. You learn to have a vehicle "run interference" for you in intersections where someone could come blasting on through a red light. Let them hit your interference vehicle before they hit you. Never go through a GREEN light without checking opposing traffic, because that is a good way to get shmooshed too. Learn to use the front brake properly.

Not for the faint of heart, and not for those with bad balance or beginner skills. If you can get through the first couple months intact, you might have learned enough to give yourself a fighting chance.

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Re: Stoopid Motorsikle Question

Post by ken k »

Doc wrote:Aw phooey! Give mama a ride or two, and she'll be just fine.

I had a 79 Gold Wing and rode it throughout college (when I didn't have to pack instruments around). I bought it from a professor for $500. It needed carb work and new tires. A friend of mine did the work and I was set. Only other thing I had to do was replace a cracked fairing mount, which I found easily at a bike junkyard for $7.50. It was an outstanding bike. Mileage was not a concern at the time, but I estimated it at 30-35, even with bags, trunk, fairing, and my fat ***. Eventually sold the bike to my dad. Man...was I sad about that. Even more sad when he traded it for a Honda Pacific Coast, although I grew to love that little bike (little like 800cc?) That's ok, since my dad no longer rides, and I've been offered the bike. I just need to figure out how the hell to get it here. Wayne, you make any runs up to Walmart HQ and Houston, or still just locally?

Doc
Ah the PC 800 another bike on my short list. If you ever want to sell it let me know.....
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