Mazda 626 transmission

[SplatterTone]

A tale for those presented with the opportunity to purchase a used Mazda 626 (and pretty sure some Ford branded models) ......

Going through the mainenance type stuff on the newly acquired 2001 Mazda 626. Today, I did the whole routine of radiator flushing. I have a large driveway area on a slope so that I can point the car downhill to drain and uphill to fill. So, I point downhill to drain. Then uphill to fill using the Prestone Super Flush which I have no idea if it really does anything significant. Then let it run for 30 minutes. During that time a substantial amount of ATF ended up on the ground.

Time to hit the Internet (something a small voice told me to do before I bought the car).

Turns out the ATF cooling on 4-cylinder models from early 90's to 2001 (figures I'd get a 2001) was marginal, and transmission failure rate is high as a result. (that sinking feeling in the stomach)

So, I assume, with the car running at about 2000 RPM for 30 minutes with no air going over the ATF cooler, the ATF fluid boiled up and out. Well, the transmission currently works OK, and there seems to be bigger ATF coolers available. However, a new transmission, if this one craps out, will be about what I paid for the car.

The body paint and interior still look great. It's a sharp looking car. All the electrical stuff works. The A/C works. I need to replace the CV joints as the boots have split (but I already knew that ... not a big deal ... probably a year left on these before they really start to grind). The wife loves this car. The car will be used predominantly for short trip errands by the wife with very occasional (maybe 3 time per year) 100+ mile trip to Oklahoma City to visit the wife's sister.

And now the big decision: Do I investigate putting on a bigger ATF cooler and hope that takes care of things? Or do I sell it while the transmission is still good? (after replacing the CV joints because I KNOW those need to be done, and it would be the neighborly thing to do). Any opinions (knowledgable or not, either way is fine), jeers, calling me a dumbass for not checking the Internet prior to purchase ... go ahead. Be my guest.

After the fiasco of my 1981 Ford F100 many years ago (1981 to be exact), I swore I would NEVER, EVER buy another Ford. So, I break my oath, buy a Ford (what the Mazda really is), and find out about this load of bupkis. (Good word. Look it up.)

NEVER, EVER again. Don't "bail" them out. Let the POS company fail. Long live Toyota.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

No jeers or name-calling here...the 626, especially later model ones like yours, is still a great car. As you suspected, it is virtually identical to the Ford Probe and the earlier Mazda MX-6. It sounds like you got a nice deal on one that your wife likes...Kudos on that.

An auxiliary tranny cooler add-on is always a good idea, and certainly won't hurt anything. NAPA sells these in the $50-$75 range, and they're easy to install...the biggest hurdle is finding a place with clearance to mount one. On your vehicle with its cramped engine compartment, in front of the A/C condenser (without touching it...that will heat it and impair its efficiency) is probably best. You'll need to splice into the transmission cooler lines with the hose provided in the kit which simply clamps on to the stock metal lines...the hard part sometimes is finding a place where you can reach the lines easily to cut and splice. With the poor record of the Ford CD4E transmission, I personally would add the largest aftermarket cooler you can afford/fit. The good news for you is that by 2001, the CD4E had been improved a great deal from its initial use on the 4-cylinder 626/Probe models in 1994. The biggest problem with that tranny is the lack of a drop-down oil pan for fluid and filter changes...it's the best preventative maintenance item you can do for an automatic, IMO. It does, at least, have a drain plug so that you can change the fluid...unfortunately, the filter is non-serviceable without disassembling the tranny (which I would never recommend). You can, of course, pay a transmission shop to force-flush the transmission...some will tell you that this does a better job of removing contaminants than a do-it-yourself fluid change. One last note on the tranny...if you haven't already refilled it, spend an extra few bucks and use a fully synthetic transmission fluid in it...something like Royal Purple's Max ATF. That will give you some extra protection as well for the life of the car.

You'll need to purchase half-shafts to replace the CV joints...nobody services just the joints anymore (short of re-greasing and a new boot), and the shafts are only about $55 each with exchange. Check for ABS brakes on the car before going to the parts store to get them...it's an option and you'll need to know to get the correct shafts (I suspect on a 2001 model you will have ABS). Here's a tip for when you install them that most manuals don't give...take a small triangular file and lightly "clean up" the splined ends where the shafts enter the transaxle and the wheel hub assembly. Don't take off a lot of material...you just want nice, sharp splines with a nice clean groove in-between. That makes installation much quicker and easier, since the shafts aren't always very well cut at the factory.

Since your wife likes the car so much and it is still clean and in good working order, I wouldn't sell it at this point. Chances are very good that you will be able to keep it for another 10 years or so, especially considering the obvious care you take of your vehicles (I wish all my customers would do the same, even if it would be bad for business ). Good luck with your decision!

[steve_decker]

I agree with most of what Todd has shared. The CD4E would benefit from the addition of an auxiliary cooler. The main problem, and the reason why the 626 doesn't already have one, is that it is an impediment to airflow through the condenser. With reduced airflow through the condenser, your a/c performance will settle some. In that regard, it's a tradeoff as to whether or not you'd prefer fully functioning a/c or the added piece of mind with the auxiliary transmission cooler. The other part of the recipe, along with the cooling issue, is the maintenance issue. As designed, the transmission fluid temperature will run in the upper threshold of acceptable. It really isn't cause for concern as long as fluid is changed at a reasonable mileage interval. So you may consider simply keeping a very watchful eye on maintenance rather than installing the cooler.

Now, to Todd's post, it is my opinion, based on many years of automotive experience, that most owners will never gain enough benefit from synthetic fluids to justify the cost. Granted, there are many extreme mileage stories out there associated with synthetic fluid use but there are just as many out there that have run nothing but conventional fluids.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Now, to Todd's post, it is my opinion, based on many years of automotive experience, that most owners will never gain enough benefit from synthetic fluids to justify the cost. Granted, there are many extreme mileage stories out there associated with synthetic fluid use but there are just as many out there that have run nothing but conventional fluids.

I almost agree 100%, Steve, except for cases like a fluid which is consistently run in the upper threshold of its temperature tolerance. The big advantage, to me, of synthetic fluids is their resistance to breakdown in such conditions. That's why I think the Royal Purple (or Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF, or Amsoil Synthetic ATF, etc.) would work well for the OP...it would tend to retain its lubricity in higher temperatures better than ordinary Dexron III/Mercon. That said, does the 2001 CD4E require Mercon V anyway (I don't think it does, but I'm away from my technical info at work until Monday)?

As far as synthetic motor oil goes, I'm among the many who change their oil often enough that I can't justify the extra expense.

[SplatterTone]

Much appreciate the info. The last CV job I did was the 96 Sentra that got stolen. That was a slide out the entire shaft -- spined into the transmission -- and replace it. Pretty straight-forward. Prior to that (way prior) was a certified crapbox known as 1977 Volkswagon Rabbit. That was CV joint only with a circlip sort of deal (if I recall correctly).

I read about the PITA way to completely change the ATF on the 626. Crap. Completely ridiculous. Might break down and pay somebody to do it.

The car has an ATF cooler on it. Small. About 11" X 4". Internet chatter (and the puddle of ATF in my driveway) suggest it's too small. It is easily accessible, mounted on the driver side, in front of the A/C heat exchanger. So switching out for a bigger one doesn't look difficult -- maybe some custom bracket making. Good info here.
http://www.oddball-online.com/probemx/p_m20.htm

Owner bitch session here.
http://www.nabiki.com/sstalker/626_tranny.asp

Again, thanks for the info. I'm still debating about keeping it after reading the Internet steam from pissed off owners.

[SplatterTone]

it would tend to retain its lubricity in higher temperatures better than ordinary Dexron III/Mercon. That said, does the 2001 CD4E require Mercon V anyway (I don't think it does, but I'm away from my technical info at work until Monday)?

Best info I've found so far says DEX/MERCON. Not Mercon V.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

What say you, gents? Yea or nay? Is what U-Haul does worth the money?

Wade, the coolers in your link look exactly like the Hayden brand ones sold by most parts stores. They work fine and use a very simple design.

So, yeah, I would say the U-haul deal is worth the money. It's a very simple do-it-yourself install, as well, so I don't know if I would pay for them to do it...however, sometimes convenience is worth the extra $$$. It sounds like they did a clean install on your Mustang.

I'm still debating about keeping it after reading the Internet steam from pissed off owners.

I hope they don't influence your decision too much. It's rare that those who have a good experience with a car go on the internet and talk about it, but it's common for those with bad experiences to gripe. You also never know the background of the person making the claims of lemon...did they keep up on maintenance or push the car to its limits and ignore it?

One thing is apparent...your wife is pleased with the car, and I'm sure I speak for many here who understand what a nice plus that can be. If I can help at all with part number look-ups or further parts or service info (we have the Mitchell 1 service at work), let me know on Monday and I'll be happy to help.

[steve_decker]

[quote="I'm still debating about keeping it after reading the Internet steam from pissed off owners.[/quote]

I wouldn't be too rash here. The reality is that almost any 7-8 yr old vehicle you'll purchase will bring along with it some potential mechanical issues. In the scheme of things, this one is pretty minor especially since MaMa is so happy with it. Were it my decision, I'd swap out the half-shafts, flush the trans, and enjoy the ride. I doubt that I would even go to the trouble of installing an aftermarket auxiliary cooler. I'm not a huge fan unless someone decides that they're going to start towing with a vehicle (or something like that). The addition of an aftermarket cooler does create a few potential concerns. You add leak points by cutting the lines to allow for rubber hose connections, the rubber hose connections allow a potential entry point for dirt and grime, and an aftermarket cooler can impact fluid return to the trans. After all, the CD4E is not at all a bad transmission... just a little more maintenance sensitive than many others.

Wade, I wouldn't worry at all about the addition of one on your Volvo. In my experience, they are more than adequately cooled and their transmissions are nearly bullet-proof.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I wouldn't be too rash here. The reality is that almost any 7-8 yr old vehicle you'll purchase will bring along with it some potential mechanical issues. In the scheme of things, this one is pretty minor especially since MaMa is so happy with it. Were it my decision, I'd swap out the half-shafts, flush the trans, and enjoy the ride. I doubt that I would even go to the trouble of installing an aftermarket auxiliary cooler. I'm not a huge fan unless someone decides that they're going to start towing with a vehicle (or something like that). The addition of an aftermarket cooler does create a few potential concerns. You add leak points by cutting the lines to allow for rubber hose connections, the rubber hose connections allow a potential entry point for dirt and grime, and an aftermarket cooler can impact fluid return to the trans. After all, the CD4E is not at all a bad transmission... just a little more maintenance sensitive than many others.

Excellent advice...the concerns of adding a cooler are very valid. I hate to admit it, but I often approach these problems as a person in the parts business...encouraging a sale is what I do, and inevitably affects my opinions. I'll echo Steve's words about the CD4E, especially the later models.

[SplatterTone]

Still reading you all, and absorbing the info.

One question: One the topic of ATF maintenance, I ran across a description of service a dealer (or I suppose a well equipped shop) can provide where, not only is all the ATF replaced, but the lines flushed, and (I think) the filter (which is essentially inaccessible) gets back-flushed and cleaned out as part of the process. Comments?

[Todd S. Malicoate]

One question: One the topic of ATF maintenance, I ran across a description of service a dealer (or I suppose a well equipped shop) can provide where, not only is all the ATF replaced, but the lines flushed, and (I think) the filter (which is essentially inaccessible) gets back-flushed and cleaned out as part of the process. Comments?

That's a common transmission service (or called "transmission flush") that most dealers and many service facilities (including the "Jiffy Lubes") provide now. It involves using shop air to force the fluid out of the entire transmission (including the torque convertor and lines). Sometimes a cleaning fluid is forced through the transmission as well. Most experts say that it's a better way to complete remove contaminants, since only removing the drain plug and refilling doesn't get the fluid out of the torque convertor or lines (or the contaminants that can pool there). Those experts will also likely say that on vehicles like yours with an non-serviceable filter that pressure flushing is more highly recommended. Others will tell you it's a waste of money, since regular drain-and-refill services will eventually get all the fluid out anyway, or simply draining and refilling several times while idling and moving the shift lever several times will also get all of the junk out.

I'm on the fence on this one...there are many local transmission shops who do this and say it is beneficial (of course, they make a ton of money on this service by saying that, as well). Usually the discussion moves to Dodge trucks and the difficulty in completely cleaning those transmissions out (and the need to do so several times on those trucks).

Whilst trying very hard to suppress my tendency to "sell something," I will advise you that unless you have had a recurring transmission problem (searching for gears, shifting hard, etc.) I don't think you need to do this. Again, you seem like the type of owner who pays attention to regular maintenance and takes good care of his vehicles - services like the transmission flush are mostly for neglectful car owners who never even check the fluid.

[SplatterTone]

services like the transmission flush are mostly for neglectful car owners who never even check the fluid.

I was thinking that, since I don't know the past 125K mile history on this one, an initial big enema might be a good idea, then go to the regular maintenence.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I was thinking that, since I don't know the past 125K mile history on this one, an initial big enema might be a good idea, then go to the regular maintenence.

That's a very good point. Comparing the service to an enema gave me a good laugh, as well.

I've never heard of anything bad coming from a flush service. The usual complaint is the prohibitive cost compared to the questionable benefit. If you feel better getting this service done, then by all means do it. I would go to the dealer or a transmission shop of high reputation, though...don't trust this to the 18-21 year old kids at the Jiffy Lube.

[steve_decker]

I was thinking that, since I don't know the past 125K mile history on this one, an initial big enema might be a good idea, then go to the regular maintenence.

That's a very good point. Comparing the service to an enema gave me a good laugh, as well.

I've never heard of anything bad coming from a flush service. The usual complaint is the prohibitive cost compared to the questionable benefit. If you feel better getting this service done, then by all means do it. I would go to the dealer or a transmission shop of high reputation, though...don't trust this to the 18-21 year old kids at the Jiffy Lube.

BINGO!

I would get the flush done... it is the most effective (and most environmentally friendly) way to exchange all the fluid in the trans. In fact most, if not all, manufacturers recommend this service. The problem with drain/refill is that the fluid in the torque converter is never exchanged. Also, the vast majority of the fluid resides in the torque converter. On the CD4E, if I remember correctly, you'll exchange about 3-4 quarts on a drain/refill and leave behind 6-7 in the torque converter. The flush method will ensure that it is all exchanged. It's not at all a gimmicky service but, as Todd mentioned, is one that should not be left to the folks at Jiffy Lube.

[Rick Denney]

The advantage to the synthetic is that it does not lose it's lubricity or viscosity when run at high temperatures. That doesn't mean the bands in the transmission won't still be affected (transmissions have lots of plastic parts in them nowadays), but it does mean the oil won't break down.

Unlike with engines, there's really nothing in a transmission to make the oil dirty except the metal flour that comes from normal wear.

I am NOT a fan of transmission flushes, or of forced fluid changes for transmissions that have been run very long without a fluid change (and thus have a lot of that metal flour sitting in the bottom of the pan). In my experience with the hydramatic trannies in old GM cars--now decades old--fresh fluid in a tranny that has never had a fluid change after, say, 100,000 miles will not behave well in the presence of all that stirred up metal flour. A flush DOES NOT remove that stuff--it just stirs it around. When you can remove and clean the pan, and replace the filter, then it makes sense.

This does not apply to transmissions that have had their fluids changed regularly, which is few of them. Nor does it apply to trannies that have been overheated and must have a fluid change as a result. You do what you have to do. Removing the fluid from the torque converter is not as critical as many believe, if the fluid is not hopelessly burned. Replacing the fluid several times will get much of it, or dilute it down with fresh oil sufficiently. I do know people who have drilled plugs into their torque converters so they could remove the plug through the bell-housing inspection port (or starter opening) and drain them. I know people who loosen the pressure side of the cooling line and run the transmission until air burps out and then IMMEDIATELY shut down the engine. Both of those methods will empty the torque converter without the power flush, but I think that sort of thing is only needed in extreme cases.

In my experience, more engines have been gunked up with unnecessary and sometimes harmful cleaning chemicals, and would have been happier with just a fresh replacement of fluids. When I have replaced old coolant, for example, I flush with clean water only, and then install new coolant. I do not use engine flushes, and when faced with a gunked-up engine, prefer to use several changes of clean oil and filter to remove the gunk, rather than try to relocate all the current clumps of gunk to places where they can do more harm.

I would never recommend running an engine at high idle (~2000 RPMs) against the stall RPM's of a torque converter with the transmission in gear for more than a minute or so. That will overheat even well-cooled transmissions. But I've done it to warm up an engine quicker to open the thermostat after a coolant change. Not bright, but some of us learn more slowly.

Rick "recognizing that even Toyota makes a crappy car from time to time" Denney

[SplatterTone]

I talked to a mechanic at what seems to be a pretty good Ford service department (maybe not an oxymoron! ... they have another location that does Toyota.). He echoed some of the above concerns about stirring up doo-doo by running a flush without checking things first. He said he was not the transmission guru, but if the ATF is not discolored and no burnt odor (it isn't), then it has probably been properly serviced in the past, and likely won't need a flush. I told him I would at least like to have the pan dropped to see what lies there and in the two magnets in the pan. So, I'll have the car there tomorrow morning. The transmission guru can render an opinion on flush or just drop pan and change ATF. Also, I hope, render an opinion on the state of the transmission and whether keeping the car is a good idea.

The stock ATF cooler apparently does a good job at driving speed. After I drove to the house, I immediately pulled the ATF dipstick, and it was mildly warm -- not hot at all. It could be that the real problems come with crawling bumper to bumper in hot weather.

And tonight, I got to replace the Idle Air Control valve on my mom's 95 Cougar. Wow! Something that was actually in a location that was easy to get at. That's almost unheard of.

[SplatterTone]

The verdict ...

The transmission guy says the ATF does not need servicing, and he is pretty sure the transmission was rebuilt recently -- probably within the last 1,000 miles. He says everything looks too good for this NOT to be a rebuilt transmission. He test drove it and verified it works fine, no concerns. Plus , one of the starter bolts was laying on housing.

The ATF bubbling out onto the ground was because there was a rubber vent tube that was kinked. So, it looks like I got a keeper here. CV joints are next on the list of things to do.

For anyone in the Tulsa area ...
I'm certainly not an expert on auto shops, but the people at Jim Norton Ford in Broken Arrow were great. They discussed things with me, were friendly, impressed me as being competent, and did not do any unnecessary work.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Glad to hear you got a nice car that you can enjoy for a while. If you need any help finding a good deal on parts there in Tulsa, feel free to send a PM and I'll be happy to look stuff up for you.

And you are correct about Jim Norton...they have gotten me out of a pickle by providing a part for a customer more than once!

Congrats!