Small minds

[Joe Baker]

Now, wait just a second. When folks say that a felony conviction is too much, they may well be right. But to say that giving students a tool makes the school complicit in the students' abuse of that tool is going just a bit far! Better not give a student a mouthpiece, he's liable to fling it at the band director. It'd be the BD's fault, too, for giving it to the student. And better not give the kid a scalpel to dissect a frog -- he might stab a classmate. Not his fault, of course -- the teacher should have KNOWN that's what a teenager would do with a pointy instrument! What's next with you guys -- girls who go out in public are just asking to be raped?? Sheesh.

I'm just not buying any of this. By the time a student is in high school, they know what's right and wrong. My kids have been in four different school districts plus a private school, and in EVERY CASE they had to sign an agreement outlining the rules for using the computers.

I do think a lot of people are making the wrong comparison when figuring out what the punishment should be, though. Instead of asking "what if the kid had broken into someone's house" or "... into the school", why not ask "what would happen to an adult who hacked his boss's password? At a minimum, he'd be fired (and it'd be tough getting another job, I might add, with his previous employer saying he's inelligible for rehire). In MANY cases, the employee would be prosecuted. Felony or misdemeanor? I don't know, and I'm not sure I would want the responsibility of deciding.

But this IS a serious thing these kids did, and they need to bear the FULL blame. If someone was careless with a password, he should take the full blame for that, but that's a different offense.

As far as punishment for the kids, if it were up to me I think it'd be significant community service (100 hours or more) and probation, with their records expunged if they can keep their noses clean until age 21.
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Joe Baker, who thinks there are probably a couple thousand students in this school waiting to see how serious the school takes their computer security.

[Chuck(G)]

why not ask "what would happen to an adult who hacked his boss's password?

Hmmm, I used to get paid for doing things like hacking passwords. I even helped develop a forensics course where one of the problems on the final exam was to hack a password...

I guess context is everything.

Chuck "IACIS LIfe Member"(G)

[Joe Baker]

why not ask "what would happen to an adult who hacked his boss's password?

Hmmm, I used to get paid for doing things like hacking passwords. I even helped develop a forensics course where one of the problems on the final exam was to hack a password...

I guess context is everything.

Chuck "IACIS LIfe Member"(G)

Ah, but the key here is "the boss's password"! I could be wrong, but I'll bet that would have been an entirely different matter!
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Joe Baker, who notes that the police get paid to put people in jail, too, but (usually) not their bosses!

[Chuck(G)]

Ah, but the key here is "the boss's password"! I could be wrong, but I'll bet that would have been an entirely different matter!

You know, there are some days when I think I'd need that service, but generally I can remember my own passwords...

[Joe Baker]

Ah, but the key here is "the boss's password"! I could be wrong, but I'll bet that would have been an entirely different matter!

You know, there are some days when I think I'd need that service, but generally I can remember my own passwords...

Okay, boss... you win!!

_____________________________
Joe Baker, who's going home now...

[TexTuba]

By the time a student is in high school, they know what's right and wrong.What would happen to an adult who hacked his boss's password?

I agree with you that kids in high school are conscious of what is right and wrong. And yes, they should be punished for what they have done.
But I believe it is different with an adult. If a student knows right or wrong, then an adult sure as hell should know what's right or wrong!!
It also depends on where the adult works. If we're talking a place of business like where I work then at best a misdemeanor. But if we're talking a corporation that has not only co-workers' info. but customers' info. then that's a felony in my opinion.

Ralph

[Rick Denney]

Now, wait just a second. When folks say that a felony conviction is too much, they may well be right. But to say that giving students a tool makes the school complicit in the students' abuse of that tool is going just a bit far!

I agree. I think they should be punished--appropriately.

But there is a matter of degree, and the response of the school district (and DA) smacks of the sorts of zero-tolerance distortions that put a kid up on charges for bringing an Aspirin to school. That's why the retributive approach is ethical, it minimizes those distortions. We conservatives often get on our law-and-order high horse and push for harsher and harsher penalties, and we often do that because so many criminals are coddled. But inappropriate punishment to either extreme is wrong, and that's why our system was based on the concept of just retribution.

Again, there is a matter of degree. The students did not hack into the school's computer system. They did not gain access to grades, administrative information, financial information, or anything like that. All they did was bypass software designed to restrict access during web use. Yes, that's a punishable offense, but it is not stealing as so many seem to be saying. I can see no instance of theft or even trespass in this story. To me, it's about the same as being caught with a Playboy magazine at school. Yes, they know better, and yes, they should be punished.

The problem with an excessive response is that it will cause a hew and cry, with the result that those who do hack into personal information and do steal and otherwise misuse that information will not be distinguished from those who are trying to sneak a peak at a web site where they don't belong. Excessive punishment for minor crimes undermines the authority for appropriate punishment for major crimes, it seems to me.

Rick "who thinks schools have lost their ability and authority to use plain common sense" Denney