What makes you *MAD* ??

[tubatooter1940]

I call the up-close spaces the Fat People Parking Spaces.

MA

[cjk]

(Has anyone ever seen the hilarious Bernie Mac episode where he ended up being locked in the yard barn overnight with all of the bulk candy they bought from Costco ? )

Nope. TV is for fat people.






(Oh wait a minute. I have seen it.)

[OldsRecording]

truly?

wussy, do-nothing, status-quo, compromising, freedom-scuttling, worthless old farts who present themselves as "mavericks".



bloke "Jefferson, Adams, and Washington were 'mavericks'...and, perhaps, these were as well..."

True 'mavericks' don't call themselves 'mavericks'.

[MaryAnn]

So which did you like better, Bart or Bret?

MA

[MartyNeilan]

True 'mavericks' don't call themselves 'mavericks'.

They don't?

[lgb&dtuba]

That just has to be an old picture. The bottom of the rear window hasn't rusted out.

[tubaguy9]

truly?

wussy, do-nothing, status-quo, compromising, freedom-scuttling, worthless old farts who present themselves as "mavericks".

I think I know who you're talking about...but I think Sean would say something if we mentioned them...

[TMurphy]

True 'mavericks' don't call themselves 'mavericks'.

They don't?

My dad had one of those when I was a young child...by the time he got rid of it the muffler was held on by a wire hangar, and the driver's side window had been broken (so some polite young man could get to the radio) and replaced with a sheet of plexiglass. I think the car finally met its end when the radiator cracked, and the car started overheating at every traffic signal....great car, really...

[MartyNeilan]

The reason I thought of that was because my stepfather had a 1974 four door Maverick, ordered sight unseen in THAT ugly color, until he got his 1980 Fairmont POS. My grandfather bought the car from him and drove it until he passed away in 1989. Outside of the rust, the car never had any serious mechanical difficulties in the 15 years my family owned it. I remember one time in the late 70's when I stopped breathing and had to be rushed to the hospital. My stepfather had all four wheels off the ground as he caught up to the ambulance. When I was learning to drive, they never let me use that car, I guess they figured it was too fast. What makes me mad??? I dislike slushboxes, and the few Mavericks I have been able to locate on auction sites with a manual transmission have the shifter on the column (three on the tree.) I guess I am too cheap / too lazy to put in a four speed and put in a floor mounted (four on the floor) shifter, and the prices are now creeping up on what was never really that great of a car.

[tubatooter1940]

I got a four door Maverick cheap and tried to deliver mail out of it.
The darn carb kept vibrating apart and had to be removed and turned upside down to tighten it back up. After four or five times with no permanent fix apparent, I unloaded that p.o.s. and got me a used Oldsmobile with huge trunk, tranny coolers, a big A.C and a Delco stereo.

[Chuck Jackson]

and the prices are now creeping up on what was never really that great of a car.

Surely a sign that the Apocalypse is coming.

Chuck"scared to see what happens when a Pinto or a Yugo becomes a hot commodity"Jackson

[LoyalTubist]

It's been said before, but ignorance. One of my reasons for leaving Vietnam was that I was working on a project to create an awareness of what was going on outside the borders of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam.. We spent six months surveying about 50,000 unsuspecting people in Saigon, Vung Tau, and Long An province. Long An province, site of Long An University (where I was Associate Professor of Communication and Culture), was probed probably harder than any place. I had a TV class that aired 7:45 pm Friday nights on the regional TV station called Bad English. The idea of the program was that most Vietnamese speak such perfect, pure English that the only people who understand them are English teachers who speak at an astonishing slow rate of speed. When I arrived in Manila, everyone complained in this country that I speak too slowly!

The Vietnamese want to learn English but it's more of a status symbol than anything else. They want nothing to do with the culture that goes with the learning of a language. My performance reports at the university (filed by the president of the university) were complimentary in that I can teach anyone at any level to speak English which will be understood by anyone. My reports filed by the department head complained that I didn't spend enough time teaching students fundamentals, which have been driven into the ground since they began learning English in elementary school.

After six months of my study, the government education department concluded that the people are happy in their ignorance... that the only people they really care about who speak English are the Hollywood celebrities who adopt unwanted children in Vietnam and get them the heck out of the country. (I'm referring to Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt, whom the Vietnamese revere highly. ) Handicaps and learning disabilities are a stigma in Vietnam and the country loves it when someone takes people with those problems away from there because they clutter the streets begging.

Sure, you see beggars here in the Philippines, too. But you also see handicapped lawyers, blind librarians, and others whom would be considered unwanted in neighboring countries.

My Vietnamese ex-wife couldn't stand that I accepted her handicap. She couldn't accept it herself. Since I took her to 10-15 doctors who said her condition could never be improved, I was happy with her as she was. Unfortunately, she saw this as my rejection for what she really needed in life. Having a mother who has been confined to a wheelchair since she was 36, I have always considered disabled people to be no different than anyone else. I even brought my bride one of my mother's old wheelchairs (a lot more comfortable than what they have in Vietnam!)

Going back to the idea of Vietnamese education, I often sat in classes offered by my university which taught students how to pass the ToEFL (Test of English as a Foreign Language). It was very difficult for me not to get irritated. One problem was, they actually taught the answers to the test. The worst thing is that they didn't tell students anything about how a class outside Vietnam operates. To have fun in the classroom is considered to be a grand waste of time. Students are routinely ridiculed and NOT challenged in the right way.

Glad to be out of there.

[artuba]

People that use drive thru windows that ask the worker to hold on while they decide what to order. I work for a coffee conglomerate that, in recent months, can't decide what the heck to do from a business aspect. I can't count how many times I hear the phrase "Can I have just a minute?" from people sitting in their car using a system that was designed to make obtaining sustenance more efficient.

[Thomas Maurice Booth]

Conductors (especially the ones from small sub-par orchestras) who speak in a very condescending manner to the entire orchestra about being "professional" and coming prepared to rehearsal while he is unable to conduct efficiently or change meters from 4/4 to 3/4 multiple times and proceed to blame the orchestra for THEIR mistakes. And stating that "my orchestra doesn't play ties or dots because that makes things sound so muddy and awful." In all the training I have received and in all of the groups I have ever played with, I have never met a more arrogant and angry conductor or colleague.

So, he lectures us about not playing ties or dots and then says we have to play what he wants to hear even though it isn't on the page and 5 minutes later yells at everyone again for not playing what the composer put on the page.

Also, he began rehearsal 10 minutes late, there is a 20 minute break (for cake and brownies), I play on one of three remaining pieces, he rehearses the two I don't play on (for about an hour) and let's everyone out 20 minutes late. In addition to telling everyone to be at the hall over 2 HOURS early for a sound check (not on the schedule I was given when I agreed to sub for the extremely low paying per service orchestra over 2 hours away from home each direction)...wtf?

TMB

[MartyNeilan]

Also, he began rehearsal 10 minutes late, there is a 20 minute break (for cake and brownies), I play on one of three remaining pieces, he rehearses the two I don't play on (for about an hour) and let's everyone out 20 minutes late. In addition to telling everyone to be at the hall over 2 HOURS early for a sound check (not on the schedule I was given when I agreed to sub for the extremely low paying per service orchestra over 2 hours away from home each direction)...wtf?

TMB

Thomas,
When I was a student at Lee, we would occasionally bring in local union players to supplement. At the time, I couldn't understand why one time some musicians began packing their instruments literally 30 seconds before the end of the last movement, just because the clocked ticked over. At the time I found this extremely arrogant and it appeared unprofessional. I had never seen something taken to that extreme in either amateur or professional rehearsals.
Your story completely explains why the old saying "if you give them an inch, they take a mile" holds true.

Marty "who has a little more sympathy now for the unions"

[Thomas Maurice Booth]

I am a member of the Union. However, although I believe it is an orchestra is part of the Union they follow almost no Union Rules. My girlfriend (playing piccolo and a member of the Union) is also subbing in the group and was playing in the piece they were rehearsing until the end and began to pack up at 9:30 the conductor said "and where does she think she is going?" to the Principal Flute.

When we went to talk to Personnel Manager after rehearsal we expressed how they were violating Union rules, were disrespectful, etc... We were to the point of telling the PM that we would not return and said we would find subs for the remaining services but would like to be paid for the services we performed. She said we would only get paid if we show up to all of the gigs. (Did I mention people show up 1/2 hour late and get paid the same amount as those of us who show up on time?) We asked why and she replied "it is in the contract." What contract? We were never given a copy to sign and when asked to see one she said "we don't hand them out." So we are forced to show up for the remaining services so that we get paid. If I hadn't spent so much money on gas going to and from rehearsal we would have said 'see ya' right then and there.

I always conduct myself in a professional manner. I show up 15 minutes before rehearsal warmed up and ready to play. I know all of my parts and am ready for the concert at the time of the first rehearsal. To be shown such little respect and to be belittled in such a manner disgusts me. I will NEVER agree to play with this group again!

TMB

[windshieldbug]

This is exactly why musical unions exist at all.

[Thomas Maurice Booth]

Is it worth calling the Local office and filing a grievance?

TMB

[windshieldbug]

Is it worth calling the Local office and filing a grievance?

Grieve against what?
It sounds as though the local has put up with this crap for quite a while, and hasn't done anything.

When you asked for a contract, the BS you got from the PM sounds like they don't even have a contract, he just wanted you to think that they weren't so Podunk as to put up with this crap year after year. My guess is that the players are grateful to have ANY work, and think that they truly are being enlightened on high from the "maestro", who merely puts up with their feeble efforts.

The only possible remedy, without a contract, is a job action, which I doubt this "community orchestra" would support, given what you said that they put up with now. It is only common courtesy to have a firm time the rehearsal starts and ends, as much for the "Music Director" as anyone (who is either not good enough or not important enough to have other commitments, as are the players!). Rest assured that this does not happen in the real world.

Conductors are still dismissive, condescending, and telepathic often, but at least they know how to plan their rehearsal for the time alloted (or if overtime is contemplated, at least give notice that it may or will happen).

If the market is not large, then the local may also not even have a clue how to support the symphonic musician. In some locals, the large part of their income is work dues from the symphony(ies), and they know where their bread is buttered. In others, they are just "overhead".

Call the union office and see if you can look at a copy of the contract (which should be on file) or the scale book, and see what your options are.

But realize, if you haven't done this before, what your remedies might be. An "unfair" notice in the union paper won't get you much.

[MaryAnn]

I've found that often the least competent conductors are the most demanding of the players, because they do not understand where the fault lies. Never with them, of course.

It's been a long time since I was a union member, but if you did not sign a contract, I'd say there isn't one, at least not with you. And you may not see any $$ at the end of the gig, either. Without a contract, what legal means would you use to get paid, if they don't feel like paying you?

Maybe someone with more recent union experience can address these questions.

MA