Star Wars: Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith

[Dylan King]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
That's entertainment!

[funkcicle]

but look at how well the whole series flows together!

in the 70s/80s he made 3 crappy movies with impressive special effects, people loved it!

in the 90s/00s he made 3 more crappy movies with impressive special effects, and people love them!

Over the whole thing he's got a neat story, and the prequels certainly don't overshadow the originals with impressive writing, top-notch acting, and over-coherency...if they did, this would imo ruin the flow of the entire saga..i suspect George Lucas is a bit smarter than we think.

[poomshanka]

I couldn't have penned a more concise, dead-nuts-on review of this latest eyeball/eardrum/wallet raping:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net ... u=episode3

Maybe it would've been more bearable had I seen it in a foreign language? I felt like Glass Jaw Joe getting sucker-punched for 140 minutes by one wincingly bad piece of dialogue after another. Body blow! Body blow! Right hook! Body blow! And the visuals? To paraphrase the great Ian Malcolm - "George, just because you can doesn't mean you should". Looks like ILM took every last pixel they could sink their geeky claws into, tortured them to within an inch of their lives, then projectile vomited them directly onto the screen.

About the only props I'll give to this whole cinematic boondoggle is for the Jabba the Hutt solo from ROTJ. That and some nice licks in the original when the Sandpeople are sucking robots up into their crawler - bee-deep... BOP... bee-deep... BOP... bah-dah bahhhh bah-dah bah-dah bah-daahhhhh...

...Darth Bobo

[poomshanka]

Jeeze, why is there soooooooOOOOOOOOoooooo much hatred to this?

Oh, I'm more or less with you on things. If you like it, fine. If you don't, fine. Insert cliché here - "Different strokes for different folks", "One man's trash is another man's treasure", etc.

But why can't I feel as strongly from a "thumbs down" perspective as people do about the "thumbs up"? I'm not making any value judgements about the types of people who put it in the IMDB top 250 of all time, and talk about the movies like they're the Second Coming. If that's your bag, fine. If someone wants to dress up and camp out in line for the big opening, straight up cool with me. Hell, I'll even buy them a ticket if they're short on cash and it's *that* important to them. Not my scene, but I'm easy.

I liked it. I didn't like it. If people want to pick one or the other and call it good, cool. It *is* just a movie, after all. If folks want to start shoring it up as some kind of life-changing cultural touchstone, well then expect to hear some wisecracking dissenting opinions.

"Your mileage may vary". Personally, for me, I have a hard time identifying the target audience. Kids buying into the grade school dialogue and wooden acting? Well, I guess that might work. Of course, watching someone get his legs lopped off and burned alive might not play so well with the elementary school set. Adults who want to check out the eye candy? Well, OK, if you say. Might've been nice to redirect a small fraction of that multi-billion dollar franchise into taking some classic underlying thematic elements and overlaying some *at least* passable dialogue. Worked pretty well with LOTR, I thought.

Did I really want to like it? Sure! Did I go in with an open mind? Absolutely! Am I some fanboy whose pulse races talking about intergalactic politics? Well, not quite, but that's just me. Did I feel chumped out of 2 1/2 hours of my life that I'll never get back? Yeah. Do I feel like I got my money's worth? Nope. Do I feel like there was an opportunity wasted to do something really cool with the movie besides "tie up loose ends" and "dovetail back into the originals"? Yep.

Just opinions, that's all. Expect to hear them if you want to expand the envelope of discussion in all directions.

Flame on!!

...D

[poomshanka]

About the only props I'll give to this whole cinematic boondoggle is for the Jabba the Hutt solo from ROTJ. That and some nice licks in the original when the Sandpeople are sucking robots up into their crawler - bee-deep... BOP... bee-deep... BOP... bah-dah bahhhh bah-dah bah-dah bah-daahhhhh...

Ahh, I shouldn't have sprayed John Williams with shrapnel from this grenade - I was out of line on that. Sorry, my bad.

I am a huge fan of the music, and wore out several 8-track cassettes as a youth enjoying that magic. I'll even forgive John for the Jerry Hey remake of Jabba's Palace Band when the original trilogy was re-released. What the boss wants, the boss gets, I guess.

Still thought ROTS was DOA, though...

...D

[Doug@GT]

Jeeze, why is there soooooooOOOOOOOOoooooo much hatred to this? I mean, as much as I love Star Wars, its rediculous how there is so much disrespect. and despise to his films. I mean come on! Its just a movie, you either like it, or don't like it. Leave it alone I mean after I saw that movie "Drowning Mona," I didn't go out of my way just to say how much it was a bad movie, I just said, "I didn't like it," and that was it. I respect other's oppinions, but now I feel its geting WAAAAAAAY out of hand here on this. I will say however, "How many films do you know of that inspired so many people to do what their doing right now?" Last time I checked, back in 1977, alot of people were amazed at the technology in film making, that was VERY new at that time. I will say, that without Star Wars, I woulden't even be playing Tuba. or even be a musician at all. I would just be a regular guy, sitting at home, Micheal Moring everyhthing I see on TV, and be a fattass. I can't even imagine thinking of were I would be if I didn't see those films. Yes, some might be thinking, "well that was John Williams's music, not Lucas's.," Yes thats true, but if it weren't for Lucas creating those films, I would have never heard ANY of John Williams's work, there fore not even inspiring me to become a musician at all. Bash him as much as you want, but keep it away from me.

-tubachris

The disrespect shown towards Mr. Lucas is merely a reflection of the disrespect he has shown fans of his movies over the past ten years. Actually, probably since about 1980, when he realized what a goldmine he was sitting on. He clearly put a lot of effort into "Star Wars" and "The Empire Strikes Back." After that, he got a little lazy on the writing and production, and we got "Return of the Jedi" which still was a commercial success. It is almost as if at that point, Lucas thought, "Hey, if I can make this much money with a little less effort, I won't put any at all into the next three and make a fortune!!! I can write without any concern for inconsistencies, plot holes, bad acting, or crappy dialogue, because all I have to do is put the word Star Wars in the title and people with think it's great!!!"

Then he went on to produce two of the worst movies ever made. The plan almost backfired. So he exerted just a little bit of effort in episode III, and hoped the dimished expectations would result in rave reviews of the final product. How right he was.

And to top it all off, he wants every one to know that it's HIS vision and HIS story. That he's never changed it, and that what we see now is what was in his head int he early 70's. To believe that we all are that STUPID is where he finally crosses the line. The almost-incest plotline that result from the twist in the third movie is just stupid. Maybe Georgie wants to do his sister but the rest of us do not. I have a hard time believing that he knew about Luke and Leia being siblings anytime before 1982.

He had written himself into a corner in ESB with that "there is another" bullcrap and he had to pull even more of it out of his butt to save the story. And he failed miserably. Just like that midichlorian garbage from episode one.

He makes it up as he goes, and then claims it was his story all along. I think he has personal problems.

LUCAS: It's always been this way.

FANS: So Jedi are incestuous perverts who got their cholersterol measured when they became Jedi?

LUCAS: Yep, couldn't you tell that in the original movie?

Get ahold of a recording of Mr. Lucas addressing the "Han Shot first" argument. Exhibit No. 985674 why Georgie Lucas is full of crap.

Oh well, I'm getting the original, non-CGIed movies put on DVD this weekend and as far as I'm cocerned, that's where Star Wars stops.

Doug "bring back Kasdan, Kurtz, and Kirshner"

[Tubaryan12]

but look at how well the whole series flows together!

in the 70s/80s he made 3 crappy movies with impressive special effects, people loved it!

in the 90s/00s he made 3 more crappy movies with impressive special effects, and people love them!

Thank you for saying that. BTW... the toys hit the shelves long before the movie hit the screen. This is about money and not art and anyone that thinks otherwise is just not thinking. Dudes, If they could have found a way to put Pepsi, Coke, or McDonald in the movie they would have (I haven't seen it yet...going next week...if there are any product placements in the movie don't spoil it for me....I love laughing at that stuff).

[Doug@GT]

This is about money and not art

True. But at least the original movies were entertaining...

Art: The Godfather (boring)

Entertainment: Star Wars, Indiana Jones (fun)

Wasted Ten bucks: Star Wars Prequels (why am I watching this?)

Doug "give me entertainment anyday"

[Chuck(G)]

Signs That You May Be A Redneck Jedi

1. You have ever heard the phrase, "May the Force be with y'all."
2. Your Jedi robe is camouflage.
3. You have ever used your light saber to open a bottle of Bud Light.
4. At least one wing of your X-Wings is primer colored.
5. You can easily describe the taste of an Ewok.
6. You have ever had a land-speeder up on blocks in your yard.
7. The worst part of spending time on Dagobah is them dadgum skeeters.
8. Wookies are offended by your B.O.
9. You have ever used the Force to get yourself another beer so you didn't have to wait for a commercial.
10. You have ever used the Force in conjunction with fishing or bowling.
11. Your father has ever said to you, "Shoot, son come on over to the Dark side... it'll be a hoot."
12. You have ever had your R-2 unit use its self-defense electro-shock thingy to get the barbecue grill to light.
13. You have a confederate flag painted on the hood of your land-speeder.
14. You ever fantasized about Princess Leah wearing Daisy Duke shorts.
15. You have the doors of your X-wing welded shut and you have to get in through the window.
16. Although you had to kill him, you kinda thought that Jabba the Hutt had a pretty good handle on how to treat his women.
17. You have a cousin who bears a strong resemblance to Chewbacca.
18. You suggested that they outfit the Millennium Falcon with redwood deck.
19. You were the only person drinking Jack Daniels during the cantina scene.
20. The fact that Princess Leia is your sister makes your sex even better.
21. Sex with a Wookie is kinda like the goats back home on Tatooine.
22. Your Jedi Master tells you "Hmmmmn ... again will rise the South, yes!"
23. You refer to Master Mace Windu as "Boy."
24. Your have a concussion rifle rack in your speeder.
25. You refer to your lightsaber as "Your Best Good Friend."
26. You hear "Luke, I am your father... and your uncle."

[adam0408]

I will say one thing about the starwars movies:

Mark Hamill was a better actor (although still horrid on anyones standards) than that crap pile hayden christenson. I have a theory that Lucas hires bad actors not because he "wants the story to be the point of the film, not the actors" but becuase he can get away with paying them chump change and get even more rich than he is now.

At least Mr. Hamill effectively captured Lukes persona as a whining juvenile who doesnt know anything. Hayden never even comes close to portraying evil.

[ThomasDodd]

After watching IV-VI, aren't you left with the opinion that Jedi would go to Dagobah to study with Yoda? That Yoda was always the Jedi Master and all the Jedi would study with him, but not that he was some kind of political figure as a member of the Jedi council?

Assuming you mean prior to his death?
Not on Degobah, that felt like a refuge. Where yoda went whne the empire killed the Jedi.

But yeah, prior to the Empire, the days of the Republic, I expected Yoda to be a a master teacher, like a martial arts master (prior to them becomming business endevors), and not at all involved with politics.

He would have been the teachers teacher. Well out of reach of the Empire when they killed the Jedi. The whole fight with the Emperor with Yoda tucking his tail and running to hide really grated me. No at all the way it should have went down. Yoda, as defined in the Original movies, would have fought to his death againt a lone opponent. Sure, had there been 10 or 100 of the enemy, he might have waited for better odds. But against one?

Come on George, you've turned Yoda into a coward.

[Doug@GT]

After Lucas dies, someone should remake Ep. I-III, and do it right.

Yep, we agree. I'm penning a draft in my head right now.

The whole fight with the Emperor with Yoda tucking his tail and running to hide really grated me. No at all the way it should have went down. Yoda, as defined in the Original movies, would have fought to his death againt a lone opponent. Sure, had there been 10 or 100 of the enemy, he might have waited for better odds. But against one?

This is a GREAT example of how G Lucas has no idea how to write a story. Throughout the prequels, most major developments in the plot do not have any logical reason for happening. It's almost like Lucas included them because the result HAD to happen, but he didn't really know how to get there.

To make Bill happy, I will state that this is where movies like The Godfather have an edge. I doubt the movie would be as well liked if the gun had just "happened" to be in the restroom.

[TexTuba]

Everyone judges these first three and with good reason. The third one was good but had things wrong with it. I think the main thing about these movies is that it show that you can't really make prequels. There's just too much that you have to make tie in that it's bound to fail. Especially with these movies. I mean it's STAR WARS for crying out loud! Many people were all excited about these movies but deep down you had to know they were going to be disappointing. I know I did. The moral of the story is make sequels, NOT prequels. May the force be with you...




Ralph

[Doug@GT]

The moral of the story is make sequels, NOT prequels.

When the prequels were first announced, I remember thinking to myself that the original actors would be exactly the right age to make movies based on Roger MacBride Allen's so-called Corellian Trilogy. Better plot, better characters.

Too late now.

[TMurphy]

To make Bill happy, I will state that this is where movies like The Godfather have an edge. I doubt the movie would be as well liked if the gun had just "happened" to be in the restroom.

What gives movies like the Godfather the edge, truly, is character development. The first two Godfather movies are about Michael Corleone's fall from grace...from a war hero, to a mob boss, to a man who has allowed his business dealings to rob him of everything. Watching the transformation occur within him is the greatest triumph of those films (and a rare example of Al Pacino NOT overacting, as he is prone to doing.)

As for ROTS, I thought it was much better than the first two prequels, and enjoyed watching it. Is it a masterpiece of cinema? No. Then again, I don't think the originals were, either. But that's just my opinion, and I know precisely how little it is worth.

[Scott Sutherland]

Oh well, I'm getting the original, non-CGIed movies put on DVD this weekend and as far as I'm cocerned, that's where Star Wars stops.

Hey Doug, how do I get a copy?!?

-Scott "anxious at the prospect of seeing the original trilogy again" Sutherland

[ThomasDodd]

Oh well, I'm getting the original, non-CGIed movies put on DVD this weekend and as far as I'm cocerned, that's where Star Wars stops.

Hey Doug, how do I get a copy?!?

I don't think you can. Copyright violations and all that.

I'm not sure Doug can even legally do it for himeself. But as long as he doesn't distribute them he won't get busted.

Hey Doug, what are you using as source material?

I've got the Collectors edition laser disc set, the THX edition, and the rerelease edition (US release,in Dolbly Digital).

I wish I could find the old discs at a good price. Back befor Star Wars was called "A New Hope." My understanding is the original theater version dwas slightly different in the opening text crawl, and that was changed in most for-home releases. This might be it. But I'm not sure. Remember the old style where you stuch the case in the player and never handeled the disc? That I think is the correct one, but I think it was Pan & Scan. Not sure about a wide screen version with no edits at all.

[TMurphy]

Thomas,

I've always been curious about laserdisc (never had one). From what I've read the quality (or at least, the quality capabilities) exceed that of DVD, but I've not been able to judge for myself. What's your impression??

[ThomasDodd]

I've always been curious about laserdisc (never had one). From what I've read the quality (or at least, the quality capabilities) exceed that of DVD, but I've not been able to judge for myself. What's your impression??

It's a lot better than VHS. Comparison to DVD is hard. DVD is compressed and LD isn't.
If you have access to Digital satellite or cable, you know where I'm going.

I have good DVDs and horribly over compressed ones.

LD have 2 options, 30 min per side CAV, or 60 min per side CLV. So you will alway get side changed, and oftendisc changes. Because of this most side/disc changes are well planned and at reasonable point, like between sceens, not in the middle of a chase. But not always. Then again I have DVDs with really bad, noticable layer changes, and they are more common than the bad LD changes.

As to picture quality, if the DVD isn't over compressed, poorly digitized, DVD wins. But that like comparing digital cameras and film. Which is better? (I'll take medium fomat file over the current best digital. Digital can esailly beat 35mm now, but nremember the 640x480 cameras?)

LD have 425 lines of resolution, DVD (actually MPEG-2) has more at 480. LD recordes composite video, while DVD is component (Y-Cb-Cr). No the display device itself factors in too, since a monitor with component inputs and a DVD player with component outputs will look best. Other wise the components are combined and then split again in the TV.

A LD player will probably have a better composite to S-Video split than a TV, so comparing them that way, it's about even. I've never tried the component output on a LD (I don't have a monitor with component inputs) The component splitting at the production house is better than the TV, so DVD can look better if you have component inputs.

So all of that means, that the video of the 2 is about equal unless it over compressed on DVD, or you have different formats to the TV. If you use composite or (heaven forbid) RF inputs the you never see the difference. The losses in the TV will ruin both.

Audio is different. LD stereo can be analog, like a good LP, or digital like a CD. but a DVD is alwas compressed digital aka MP3 (whick is MPEG-2 layer 3 audio). DTS and Dolby Digital are possible on a LD too and would be compressd just like on DVD, although maybe a diffeent compression level. Google for a comparison of the Star Wars:Ep1 LD and DVD for audio issuse that occur.

There are lost of neat LDs out there thay will be different on DVD. I have the ToyStory Laser box set, and it has artwork and such not with the DVD set. Same for several Disney box sets. Or like haveing the Lyrics to the songs in "The Jungle Book" on the fold out cover. They aren't printed on the DVD packaging (maybey from a computer?)

The LD set for ET included a soundtrack CD. I don't think that in teh DVD, and of course the bad guys still have guns

[Doug@GT]

I heard a rumor that while filming "The Empire Strikes Back," Lucas used the cue "He killed your father," instead of "I am your father."

I can't help but think about how much better the whole series could have been if they had stuck with this line.

Eh, just another reason why the original "Star Wars" is the best, in my book.

Doug "thinking that Lucas started screwing with a good story in 1980, rather than 1999"