congrats!

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:06 am

I got "Motorcycles For Sale"...

... and I still bet that per mile, your odds are still hugely better with public transportation than with this...

Daryl Fletcher · Post by **Daryl Fletcher** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:37 am

Daryl Fletcher · Post by **Daryl Fletcher** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:08 am

MaryAnn · Post by **MaryAnn** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:40 pm

Chuck(G) wrote: What folks should be worrying about is natural gas. 70% of new homes are built to use it and a fair amount of electricity is generated with it.

For many years I've been on a western states committee that does technical studies of the interconnected electrical system. Often there are presentations on planned new generating facilities. I remember specifically someone from a Canadian utility stating that he saw in the plans for most new Western US generating plants that they were going to get natural gas from Canada; he said that Canada had no extra natural gas as all the reserves they owned were already committed to be used in Canada. He found it "interesting" that all the US planned independent producer generating plants were counting on importing natural gas from Canada, and he wondered where on Earth they got the idea that it would be available.

I should have bought natural gas futures back then....because I'd be rich now.

MA

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:55 pm

MaryAnn wrote: He found it "interesting" that all the US planned independent producer generating plants were counting on importing natural gas from Canada, and he wondered where on Earth they got the idea that it would be available.

I've got to believe that there must be substantial tax credits or other incentives involved. A few miles north of here, one of those independents had a proposal for constructing a large natural-gas-fired generating "ranch". One of the big Canadian gas pipelines runs down the valley, so it sort of makes sense from an accessibility standpoint. But the year before the proposal was presented, wellhead prices had spiked by 400%--and we're in the BPA distribution corridor.

Eventually, given the resistance of the local community, the project went away. But I was scratching my head wondering what I'd missed...

Couple that with rebates by the gas companies for converting from other fuels to gas for heating and you've really got to wonder who's doing the thinking.

Maybe the powers that be think we'll get all of our gas on LNG tankers from Azerbaijan...

MaryAnn · Post by **MaryAnn** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:24 pm

Part of de-reg that occurred was the "unbundling" of generation and transmission facilities from vertically-integrated utilities. This was to open the market for new generating facilities that weren't utility-owned, to increase competition and lower prices. You saw what happened in California. PG&E was forced to sell their generating facilities and then buy back the power from them; PG&E had to declare bankruptcy. They laid off many employees; and the California utility consumers got scalped.

What was amusing was when this whole thing started, it had already been tried in England and was a complete fiasco. But the historical evidence was completely ignored and the fiasco occurred again.

What has become clear to me as I get older, is that whoever has the money to influence what laws are passed, ends up being the recipient of the profits that those laws create.

MA

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:25 pm

I am planning to move to the desert this summer, about 35 miles north of Palm Springs.

If you ever happen to drive on I-10 (Sonny Bono Memorial Freeway) through Palm Springs you will see these huge windmills which lower the costs of electricity immensely. They used to belong to Southern California Edison but I think they were sold a couple of years ago. This is on the Morongo Indian Reservation, where the cheapest regular gasoline in the area can be had for $3.13 a gallon. Too bad my Volvo requires premium!

MaryAnn · Post by **MaryAnn** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:34 pm

While wind power is cheaper, probably, than natural gas, it probably is not as cheap as nuclear or coal-fired. In the business we call those wind power structures bird-whackers; they tend to be built in flyways because those are also the areas with consistent wind. Just like my cat who heads for the cat door when I open the closet that contains the vaccum cleaner, hopefully in time birds will learn to avoid the structures. Of course my cat didn't get killed by the vaccum cleaner the first time she encountered it.

While the more wind power the better from certain points of view, the amount of wind power in existance is a drop in the bucket compared to other types of generation. In general, alternative generation sources are only built when legislation forces that to occur, because of the cost factor.

MA