Cyclists?

[SRanney]

When I lived in Dallas, you only really needed two gears, the with-the-wind gear and the against-the-wind gear. You'd use the former when drafting. Roadies would also need a sprinting gear.
...
When I did Ironman USA in Lake Placid (which is in the Adirondack High Peaks region), I installed a triple on my time-trial bike.

IMLP? Dig it - that makes you a stud in my book. I hope that I'll be doing my first HIM this summer if my research schedule allows it.

I moved to South Dakota only last August, and I moved from the land of some pretty-big-hills: Atlanta, GA. Being a runner and having carried around ALOT of weight up until 3 years ago (from 289lbs to 190lbs), I've got some pretty sizeable legs, too. It makes for me being in the front of the peloton pretty often on group rides, especially up here in SoDak.

As far as aero on the tri bike, I learned that riding into the wind on the way out is the best thing to do up here. Average windspeed in Brookings is 10mph; it can get alot worse at the drop of a hat, too. I can't do high-speed descents in the aero position - I'm just too terrified that my front wheel is going to jump right off the road! Normally, I put myself as low on the cowhorns as I can go.

I am so looking forward to spring!

(By the way, my current commuter is a single-speed/fixed gear converted mountain bike - perfect for slush and other winter nastiness.)

SR

[djwesp]

IMLP? Dig it - that makes you a stud in my book. I hope that I'll be doing my first HIM this summer if my research schedule allows it.
SR

Nothing suprises me about Mr. Denney. He's pretty much on top of most things.


Ironman just sounds like punishment to me. I like a good century ride, and that is about the extent of it.


Gotta respect people that do it. It takes guts.


Apparently there are etiquette(sp?) rules on Aero bars?
http://www.bamacyclist.com/articles/bars.htm

[SRanney]

Apparently there are etiquette(sp?) rules on Aero bars?
http://www.bamacyclist.com/articles/bars.htm

I've found it really depends on who you ride with. Ride with a bunch of tri-geeks, and they'll all have aero bars. Show up with a tri-bike at a club ride populated by roadies and they'll ask you to not go aero.

SR

[tuba72]

So.... I'm interested to hear how many people besides Mr. Denney and myself are cyclists in here? I'm not expecting much response due to the stereotype of the instrument. (which I contribute to every time I touch a buffet) However, it be nice to hear from you guys.


Welcome to Nebraska! Yes, it can be boring, but not as bad as driving through Nevada. My bike will get out as soon as the weather gets warmer(and it quits snowing). I need to take it to Cycle Works to get the seat checked(it keeps sliding down and cramps my knees up) I guess that's what happens when you cannot pass up a good buffett!

Gary

Or as soon as it is warmer than 16? Cycle works in Lincoln? Are they affordable?

Prices are ok as far as I know. That is where I got my mountain bike a few years ago. I take it in every once in a while for a spring tune-up. I ride more now since I moved to Seward as I can ride it to work. They are on 27th and Vine and have a store along side that has outerwear and backpacks and the like.

[LoyalTubist]

Bicycles outnumber cars here. Here is a typical Vietnamese parking lot:

[Rick Denney]

IMLP? Dig it - that makes you a stud in my book. I hope that I'll be doing my first HIM this summer if my research schedule allows it.

...Normally, I put myself as low on the cowhorns as I can go.

...(By the way, my current commuter is a single-speed/fixed gear converted mountain bike - perfect for slush and other winter nastiness.)

You ride a fixed gear in winter slush and you call me a stud? Even during IM training, I observed military band freeze-out rules. Lower than 36 at the start of the ride--I stayed home. I have ridden in colder weather but it wasn't enjoyable.

And I don't do salt water. As it was, I think I ingested about half of Mirror Lake in Lake Placid. IMUSA (as it was called then) had a lovely and easy swim, a similarly difficult bike leg, and a monstrous run course compared to Hawaii. Not that I could have qualified to go to Hawaii, even with the lottery.

And my bike-handling skills weren't wonderful even when I was racing. I went on a mountain-bike ride with local guys about 6 years ago in late January. Within 100 feet of leaving the pavement, I was on my back in a stream. Temps were in the upper 20's. I rode on 10 more miles of single-track, and the water draining out of my shoes froze on the pedals and made it hard to clip in. I missed frostbite by a hair's breadth. Never again.

Low on the cowhorns is not recommended for a long descent during an IM. You'll find that your arms are pretty toasted after the swim. That's why the IM guys invented aero bars. That's why I just let it go on the second lap in Lake Placid--my arms hurt so much trying to hold me up in an aero crouch with cowhorns that I no longer cared if I rode off the cliff into the rocks of the Ausable River.

Rick "a cyclist who hated the bike leg most in an IM" Denney

[Rick Denney]

...It takes guts.

Apparently there are etiquette(sp?) rules on Aero bars?
http://www.bamacyclist.com/articles/bars.htm

Guts aren't really required. Single-minded determination is about all anyone needs. But I couldn't sustain it, and after the IM I've pretty much hung up endurance training and gotten fat.

Aerobars are for time trials, not group rides. Triathlon is a time trial, and the more recent ITU conventions of allowing drafting are anathema to me. Nothing's worse than a bunch of tri-geeks trying to ride in a group, just as nothing is more elegant than watching pro roadies at, say, the Tour de France, sharing the load in an efficient breakaway group.

Rick "whose road bike does not have aerobars" Denney

[tofu]

--

[djwesp]

Ever see a 350 pound guy riding a 16 pound carbon fiber wonder short wheel base track bike with CF aero bars on a club group ride? I see this all the time and it just makes me laugh. We had one guy who would repeatedly show up with this set up and sew-ups to boot and always would have a blow out within 10 miles. He would show up for century, double metric centuries and our annual 200 mile ride and never ever got more than a couple miles before being dropped & LFD, but every year he has a new $5m - $7,500 wonder bike. He'd be far better off buying a $500 Trek and losing 150 pounds and putting in some real miles.

I always try to avoid riding/racing with folks who spend more time buying then riding equipment.

I have seen it, but doubt there are many of us in the tuba world that can afford this.

I'm a long ways from that 350, but bigger than a cyclist should be. My bike, because I'm poor like a lot of tubenetters, is a butcher shop special. OCR 1 Composite, Specialized GSR Seat, Specialized Shoes, Aero Bar, Shimano Ultegra components. I got the OCR Giant frame because it facilitated my large frame better than most bicycles do. (and because it was cheap)

I just set my self out to buy a new section of the bike each year. When I got it, it was a complete joke. An okay frame, with horrible accessories and components. Definitely need a new pair of wheels soon (as they are wretched)

I'm thinking the barrel bars will only be on when I'm going a LONG WAYS (in northeastern colorado, or the bran) and maybe some on my own just to get used to them.


I'm about 10 miles a week in the winter time (here anyway).

60-80 in the cool spring and fall.

140+ in the summer time. Which really depends on my school and work schedule. Ideally I'd like to be doing around 210, but that is hard to do with my time constraints.


I see a lot of parallels between cycle and tuba discussions. Level is unique, equipment is universal. Just like in the tuba world, focus leans towards equipment discussion because it is very difficult to have a conversation pertaining to level (as we are all very different).

The conversation leans towards equpment, not because it is the answer (or to most of us anyway), but because it is something that can be discussed as a common tuba/cycle interest without losing most of the audience.

[Chuck(G)]

I always try to avoid riding/racing with folks who spend more time buying then riding equipment.

Such things can be pretty humiliating. I recall one year fighting the afternnon wind on Montague Expressway that sems to go on forever at the tail end of the Mt. Hamilton Challenge that a fellow offers to pull for awhile on his 5-speed Schwinn. We alternate along the way. He gets a flat, so I stop to help him. He pulls out (after a crescent wrench and a set of channelocks) a hot-vulcanize patch kit and a big box of kitchen matches.

He was definitely the stronger rider and although grateful for his help. I felt chastened.

[Gorilla Tuba]

RE: Aero Bars - Someone said " As in everything in life (including tuba playing) there are folks who buy and use stuff not because they know how to use it or need it but because it is cool/hip and what their favorite idol/pro is "currently" using."

Sorry to be a snob (but I am) - Aerobars have NEVER been popular with roadies. Only with tri-geeks and posers. Yes, for a time trial, they could come in handy, but you'd never be seen with a pair in public. Maybe I hung around with the "uncool" crowd, but we boasted about how untrendy our equipment was. There was far more kudos given to a well maintained traditional steel bike than having the latest bike made out of unobtainium. Indeed, the fancier your bike, the more we'd laugh as we passed. I guess I'm a jerk.

We used to have a saying... never go on a training ride with someone who knows the weight of their derailleur hanger bolt.

Success racing bikes comes from only 2 sources:

1. riding alot
2. riding fast

Not at all unlike tuba playing.

PS - I still have wool jerseys and good sew-ups, so take my snobbery with a grain of salt.

[djwesp]

Doesn't sound like snobbery.

Sounds like you like to ride for all the right reasons to me. I'm exactly like you in the instrument world, guess I fall on the opposite side of the tracks in the bike world.

Saying that doesn't make you a snob and if people are that easily offended on a message board, they are in for a rough life.

I imagine I've been made fun of on the bike. Probably more for other reasons. Cars scare the bejesus out of me here, as they don't seem very aware of what is going on, and if they do, they'd much rather roll the window down and make a great example of what harassment sounds like.


By no means am I a burner, and that is why it is nice to have this discussion.

[tubatooter1940]

I had the opposite problem. When I sold my motorcycle and started biking more, I started gaining weight.

Doc

Then that weight gain was probably muscle unless you ate all those yummy dishes you used to post. That would make the weight gain be what'cha call "table muscle".

[Rick Denney]

I always try to avoid riding/racing with folks who spend more time buying then riding equipment.

Rant mode = ON.

Is there a shortage of good bikes? Will someone more deserving (by your standards) go without because your fat friend buys the latest and greatest?

Let me ask it another way: How many innovations in bicycle technology would trickle down to average racers if slow, rich, fat suburbanites didn't buy them?

How many good Bb tubas would be off the market but for once-a-week hacks (like me) who have more money than skill?

Nice golf clubs? Hasselblad cameras? None of these things are paid for by pros. They are all paid for by well-off amateurs who rarely exploit the qualities these items can bring to pros.

And however many miles you ride, there are guys who ride many more who point at guys like you and laugh.

Now, try to be a little less judgmental of your chubby riding mate. If he gets dropped, he pays a higher price than you do, because he has to demonstrate the determination required to ride the remaining 90 miles by himself. If he's doing that sort of thing regularly, then he's not fat because of sloth. So what if part of what he enjoys about the hobby is collecting slick equipment? That just puts more of it on the market for you to enjoy.

Rick "a fat guy who owns a Trek 5500 among other bikes" Denney

[Rick Denney]

There was far more kudos given to a well maintained traditional steel bike than having the latest bike made out of unobtainium. Indeed, the fancier your bike, the more we'd laugh as we passed. I guess I'm a jerk.

You sound like a charter member of the Anti-Snob Snobs. I've also been a high-ranking member in that club.

It's the same club that has people who are not world-class tuba players removing perfectly good lacquer "because it sounds better".

But it's snobbery all the same. The fellow who looks down his nose at the equipment freak is still looking down his nose, even if he's in good company.

I have always infused a healthy dose of science in my own equipment freakery, so you won't find me weighing derailleur hanger bolts. But you will find me using aerobars in a contest against the clock because it does make a difference.

I was once asked why I had aero wheels on my time-trial bike that I used at the Ironman, given that I was happy just to be there and ecstatic to finish without having to be carried away on a stretcher. My answer was simple: In an Ironman triathlon, you have 17 hours to go 2.4 miles in the water, 112 miles on a bike, and 26.2 miles on foot. If you take five minutes too long, you get to read "DNF" next to your name in the results. I had a friend who, in the previous year's IMUSA, had missed finishing by 3 minutes. I calculated, with considerable scientific care, that those aero wheels would save me 5 minutes in an Ironman. Does it matter in a club century? No. But it mattered to me.

Here's a picture of me riding my titanium, forward-position triathlon bike at Lake Placid:



There were folks there on old Nishiki commuter bikes. Some of them finished before I did. Some didn't finish at all. Some on state-of-the-art stuff didn't finish, either. Not a few high-end cyclists looked at me with a titanium time-trial bike with $700 wheels and a triple chainset and laughed.

In my old age, I've decided I don't like the view down my nose. It's too hard to live up to in the long run.

Rick "a former proud member of A.S.S." Denney

[lgb&dtuba]

.... if slow, rich, fat suburbanites didn't buy them?

Hey!

Jim 'not rich' Wagner

[Gorilla Tuba]

Rick said:

"You sound like a charter member of the Anti-Snob Snobs. I've also been a high-ranking member in that club."

Indeed, I fully admit to my snobbery. I am an official retro-grouch. It really is sad, becuse I'm stuck in the past and no longer fit or fast.

My disdain is less for the riders of the latest gadgetry and more at the apparent loss of artisanship in manufacture. I truly lament the demise of good fillet brazing. yes, I know that a clover cut out of the bottom bracket had no positive value, but it was nice to see the attention to detail. Bikes can be beautiful works of art... with soul.

[tofu]

--

[Rick Denney]

My disdain is less for the riders of the latest gadgetry and more at the apparent loss of artisanship in manufacture.

Believe me, there are still retro-grouches and even non-retro-grouches who appreciate a well-made steel frame. And not one that is fillet-brazed, but rather silver-soldered with tubes fitted into lugs. Colnago (the main source of lugs with clover-shaped cutouts) silver-soldered their frames to avoid damaging the tubes with the heat of brazing. The lugs provided enough surface area to make them strong, and the cutouts told them for sure that the solder had flowed.

I prefer simple lugs, like the old Prugnat S lugs with no decoration. That's what Bill Moore used on the bike I rode in college. Ask Joy Boone about Bill Moore.

But there are still those who make the frames the old way. Hans Schneider, who is close to you in Houston, does so. Skip Huysak does in Austin, if he hasn't moved since I knew him. And there are others. I think the respect for traditional steel frames is probably strongest among we fat suburbanites, heh, heh.

It's not the loss of artisanship, it's the loss of respect for same by the younger guys that gets us old farts twisted. And I'm right there with you.

Rick "who once wrote an article for Triathlete Magazine about the sould of a bicycle" Denney

[Rick Denney]

You seem to read in the post what you want to. I said I don't like to ride with folks who in reality spend more time on equipment than being better riders. My perogative.

Yes, it's your perogative. But it's my perogative to think it judgmental.

But you also said that the fat guy you mentioned would get dropped in the first little while of a century or a double-metric century. If he's riding centuries, then he's not unfit, and I don't care how fat he is. That's what set me off.

The bicycle world, like the tuba world, is a big place. There's room for people to approach it from a variety of directions, and there's plenty of room within it for people to pursue their own interest. It's a hobby, for Pete's sake. If a guy appreciates the engineering required to make ultra-light reliable parts, then that's what makes him happy.

If he looks down his nose at you because you don't go that way, then feel free to put the hammer down and let him feel superior from behind you. But that would be his deal.

Putting that aside, however, your comments about bike shops who put a club rider on a criterium frame are right on the mark. There are plenty of folks who demand an ultra-short Cannondale, get their teeth rattled out, and then blame aluminum. Most of the time, though, bike shops will not suggest a frame of more appropriate dimensions to people who are wanting a bike like they see on TV. My own favorite road bike is an Eddy Merckx MX-Leader, which has a long wheelbase (for a road bike intended for racing), very stiff and by today's standards heavy steel tubes, and huge torsional stiffness. The long wheelbase makes it a pleasure to ride, and the torsional stiffness makes it a pleasure to ride fast. But it wouldn't sell in the U.S.--too heavy--despite that it was used by the Deutsche Telekom team (now T-Mobile) as recently as '95. That would be the bike for a big guy who wants something high-end with a racing pedigree, and I agree that such alternatives are too rarely offered or suggested.

Rick "who has been snubbed for having a clean bicycle on more than one occasion" Denney