The Generation Gap

[TubaRay]

As an aspiring professional musician, the enthusiasm is really needed, and i was shut in as a child...not my fault.

There are many things in life that are not our fault. I don't believe using that fact as an excuse is beneficial at all.

How would i know big mouthpieces like my PT50+ are easily beat by the Baer in sound and everything.....research on here, ect ect

I believe this part of your post does not help your credibility. Since I have seen you use "ect ect" before, I know this is not simply a typing error. Perhaps you should research what you are saying when you use this abbreviation.

I love playing, simple said. And trust me, after my recitals, people said it was AWESOME (both of them), and I got that along with several people saying "James, you were really into it and having fun while creating musical lines and technique"

I had to read this part of your post five times. I don't know about others on TubeNet, but I found this to be very humorous.

James, I believe you are a sincere young man whose intentions are noble. I'm not certain you always realize that words have meaning. Every time any of us posts on TubeNet we give others a glimpse of who we are. It may be only a tiny bit, but it does allow others to begin to get to know us. There is a well-known quote that goes approximately like this, "'Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." No. I am not calling you a fool. I believe your posts often allow every one else to see what you don't know. That's fine. Then when others tell you this, it often angers you. This often results in a rant that attempts to defend yourself. In my view, this seldom helps.

When I first began posting on TubeNet, I had others jump all over several of my posts. This stung a bit. It was a good thing, though. It caused me to be more careful about the facts of my posts. I'm not perfect. I make mistakes, too. Often. When I post on TubeNet, I know that sometimes I will make a contribution. Sometimes I am ignored. Sometimes I get flamed. If I can't take it, I need to find something else to do. I have stayed because I have learned so much. You claim to want to learn. Then do it. Don't let any of us stop you. Are there jerks on TubeNet? You decide. For the most part, I believe TubeNet folks are good folks. They don't tolerate just any behavior, however.

So, James, if you want to "punish" us by not posting on TubeNet, go right ahead. I'm sure the rest of us can survive. If you want to get the best from TubeNet, then take the bad with the good. Don't be afraid of criticism. It can be a good thing.

[WoodSheddin]

So, James, if you want to "punish" us by not posting on TubeNet, go right ahead. I'm sure the rest of us can survive.

This quote could be used as the motto for the Good Ole Boy Network. I would prefer this forum be inviting of fresh faces instead of requiring some rite of passage.

[Jeffrey Hicks]

I have been playing the tuba for 20 years now. I don't practice nearly enough to be better than most freshman in high school. I have a little bit of playing time with a few horns. I studied with a very well known teacher at once upon a time. I passed the audition to join a service band but couldn't handle the boot camp. If you look at my account I joined one day after Rick Denney did. However due to the fact that he has a lot more knowledge than me he has posted 20 more times than I have. I don't post because I learn more from not expressing my opinion on every little subject. My wife will tell you that this is not the norm for me. There is very little that I don't have an opinion on. This is what i have learned while reading more and posting less.

[TubaRay]

So, James, if you want to "punish" us by not posting on TubeNet, go right ahead. I'm sure the rest of us can survive.

This quote could be used as the motto for the Good Ole Boy Network. I would prefer this forum be inviting of fresh faces instead of requiring some rite of passage.

I believe you have misinterpreted my post, Sean. I am by no means suggesting some rite of passage. I am suggesting that one not be so easily offended when no offense is suggested. If your intent is for your forum to walk on eggshells, I truly did not understand its purpose.

[WoodSheddin]

If your intent is for your forum to walk on eggshells, I truly did not understand its purpose.

I would prefer people not type anything up here they would not typically say verbally to an individual standing in front of them within fist's reach.

The reason to use humility when discussing topics is that once the discussion turns from a productive discourse to a pissing contest the topic itself takes a far backseat to the interpersonal bitchslapping. This is precisely why Politics is a taboo subject here and on thousands of other forums on the net.

This need for civility is especially important with new faces. Make new people welcome and take the high road.

[WoodSheddin]

The old guys show up with wisdom.
Doc

That is not necessarily true.

[NDSPTuba]

First I'd like to point out that this place is MILD compared to most other forum's out there. I used to frequent car forums and those where just freaking ridiculous with the key board warriors. I kick myself for not leaving them far sooner than I did.

Secondly, I think the oldies ( that term makes me laugh a little ) need to realize that the youngies come here with youthful exuberance and varying degrees of knowledge and exposure to the topic they are starting or replying too. Add to that, they are really seeking acceptance and validation ( not a pat on the back, though it may seem that way ). So you can't bitch slap them with your version of "reality" and expect them to say thank you sir may I have another. Also realize it does appear to them, when you slap them with your version of reality, that you are a bitter old coot and doesn't love what they do.

To me it is very simple, when a young person comes to you with misguided exuberance and ideas, don't slap them and tell them they are an idiot. I'm sure if you thought about it from their point of view, you would see how they may have come to that conclusion. It really is a more civil approach to just say, "I understand how you may think this, but have you considered this.......". It really is easy to do, and they younger ones might actually learn something.

I know now everyone isn't meant to teach. But the whole mentality of "I'm going to tell it like it is and to bad it you can't take it" is really a selfish approach, and brings into question why are you here or at the very least why are you responding to the post in the first place.

[Lauronie]

Okay, okay.... is TubaShaman a troll? You kind of sound like a troll.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

To me it is very simple, when a young person comes to you with misguided exuberance and ideas, don't slap them and tell them they are an idiot. I'm sure if you thought about it from their point of view, you would see how they may have come to that conclusion. It really is a more civil approach to just say, "I understand how you may think this, but have you considered this.......". It really is easy to do, and they younger ones might actually learn something.

I really haven't seen this. I don't recall anyone ever calling a starry-eyed student an idiot. Doesn't happen. What I have seen happen is the first couple hundred posts the newbie is given a great deal of latitude but gently corrected. The comeback post is often whiny and defensive. After a while, people who have been in the same shoes as the young poster, and are genuinely trying to help him/her, lose their patience and become more rigid in their language. Then those folks are called names such as "mean," "jerk," and "rude."

the whole mentality of "I'm going to tell it like it is and to bad it you can't take it" is really a selfish approach, and brings into question why are you here or at the very least why are you responding to the post in the first place.

Same comment from me here...I think it's a matter of perspective. The person posting the advice sees it as straight-forward and valuable information for people pursuing a career in the business...the people reading it see it as mean-spirited. I think some folks here (me included) do indeed have the attitude "I'm going to tell it like it is," but I think the "too bad" part is being read into it when it is often not the intent of the poster.

As with any advice, everyone here is free to take whatever nuggets you wish from whatever posts you wish. Let's all be a little more tolerant of other people's means of expression, and stop reading your personal agendas into words on a message board.

[MartyNeilan]

My GPA going into my senior year hear is nearly perfect, plus all As in english. I dont spend hours editing posts like i did my 24 page stravinsky paper or my 30 page single spaced "dissertation" on tuba literature (available through email if you want it)

I have stayed out of this until now. (That and the fact I can hardly read the new screen. )
BUT
It is posts like THIS that are the EXACT reason we are having so much garbage going on here.
James - THINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dan Schultz]

I've been an advertiser here for several years now. Not necessarily for the business aspects of it, but simply because I think everyone who uses the forum for any kind of gain (whether it be money or wisdom) has somewhat of an obligation to support it. Support can be by helping Sean in one of two ways... 1) by being and advertiser or.... 2) by being a good forum member. I try to do both.

Yes... I DO get tired of the mouthpiece, type of valves, and horn finish questions. But... we were all there at some point in time. I get emails daily asking questions that I've answered hundreds of times but I ALWAYS give the sender the courtesy of a descent sounding reply regardless of how miffed I am about having to deal with the repeated topics. And yes... I DO get emails that are horribly punctuated, the spelling is terrible, or they are in broken English. All of those emails accord the same respect. It's a small World, guys. One of those so-called 'trolls' might be signing your paycheck some day!

If someone asks a question on the TubeNet for which I have an answer, I post. If I have nothing to say that I think will be of interest to others, I USUALLY keep my trap shut. There is a heck of a lot more to be learned by listening.

[Rick Denney]

If you look at my account I joined one day after Rick Denney did. However due to the fact that he has a lot more knowledge than me he has posted 20 more times than I have. I don't post because I learn more from not expressing my opinion on every little subject.

(By the way, I started following Tubenet in late 1999. When Sean moved to the previous phpBB software in 2004, we all had to rejoin. There are many others who posted on the old Tubenet BBS software for several years before I did.)

I frequently post in order to sound out ideas. I'm not really sure I know something until I attempt to explain it in plain English, and I'm not sure it's plain English until I subject it to the scrutiny of others. I try not, however, to express something as fact when it is conjecture. You will read a lot of phrases like "it seems to me" and "I always though that" in what I write. This is an invitation to be corrected. Sometimes I slip and don't include those clues, but the corrections come anyway.

I know a lot more than I used to know. There has never been a time in my life when that wasn't true. At the same time, I question the value of what I know more and more at time goes on. By the time I'm ready to hang it up, I'll know everything and declare that knowledge itself is utterly worthless. I'm about halfway there now, heh, heh.

Some people learn only by reading others, but I have to explain it back before I'm really sure it has clicked in place.

Rick "giving out one valuable secret for doing good science, by the way" Denney

[Dan Castillo]

Okay, okay.... is TubaShaman a troll? You kind of sound like a troll.

haha I don't think he's for real either. But this is TubeNet, so anything is possible!

Anyway....enough time wasting.

[TubaRay]

If your intent is for your forum to walk on eggshells, I truly did not understand its purpose.

I would prefer people not type anything up here they would not typically say verbally to an individual standing in front of them within fist's reach.

I completely agree.

The reason to use humility when discussing topics is that once the discussion turns from a productive discourse to a pissing contest the topic itself takes a far backseat to the interpersonal bitchslapping. This is precisely why Politics is a taboo subject here and on thousands of other forums on the net.

This need for civility is especially important with new faces. Make new people welcome and take the high road.

Again, I agree. I believe that generally I follow this philosophy. Read my posts and you will probably see that I do not seek conflict with others. I hope I take the high road. I know I don't always, but I try to.

I would also agree that TubeNet benefits when we who post here show civility to each other. Although I try to do this, I don't believe I need to give a pass to anything and everything someone might post. As an example, I don't really need to hear someone tell me how they are on the Dean's list and how they make A's on all their papers, but when I read their post I can't make out what they are trying to say. Mind you, I understand that many who post here are accustomed to a very informal style of writing. I don't write in a formal style here, either. I understand making occasional mistakes. That's no problem. However, when one consistently writes in such a way as to make reading the post a severe challenge, I find it difficult to have a great deal of respect for what they are saying. I find this particularly reprehensible when that person is trying to tell me how smart they are, and how well they can write.

[TexTuba]

...

[WoodSheddin]

Pace yourself, boys. Too easy.

[The Big Ben]

Look, i dont edit these posts.

Please do. Accuracy matters. You can turn a left handed tuba to a right handed tuba with one command on most any operating system and program. Don't make excuses why you can't do something correctly.

You wouldn't go walking around campus with your shoes untied, your hair uncombed and your fly open.

Why do you do it here?

[Rick Denney]

Why are we having a pissing match between a young'un and some old'uns in the thread where I'm complaining about it? Stop it.

James, your pictures are backwards (unless you play left-handed tuba). That doesn't make you stupid. Your sentences are sometimes backwards, too. That also doesn't make you stupid. Careless, maybe, but then I'm often careless, too, and later cringe about my silly typos. But when people laugh at my typos, they don't accuse me of being stupid. And if they did, I would just giggle. And I don't get defensive (except maybe as a joke), because the damning evidence speaks for itself. So, I just giggle. Giggling is good for you. Try it.

Do me (and yourself) another favor: Print out all your posts, put them in an envelope, and write "2008" on it. Open it in 2038. Trust me when I say it will provide you no end of enjoyment.

Where I disagree with Sean's descriptions is that this is not a rite of passage, or some test contrived by old farts to keep the young'uns in their place. It's not meanness, or the desire to put people down, or anything like that. It's just people being who they are, and being true to what's important to them in their own way, and trying to pass along those priorities to others. If young'uns want to insist on the privilege of being who they are, then old'uns ought to have the same privilege. Even Doc.

I'm just appealing to those with more experience to keep their eye on the ball and not undermine their message with needless piss and vinegar.

Rick "who can't push a rope (and other trite truisms)" Denney

[TonyTuba]

I love playing, simple said. And trust me, after my recitals, people said it was AWESOME (both of them), and I got that along with several people saying "James, you were really into it and having fun while creating musical lines and technique"

I had to read this part of your post five times. I don't know about others on TubeNet, but I found this to be very humorous.

I am with you on this. Why do we care what both people who came to your recitals thought of your recital? I played a gig once, and someone said it was awesome, and I couldn't wait to get on Tubenet to tell everyone. Self promotion of your skills may not be the best and most effective way to make your point. It has gotten to the point of being ridiculous. I can ignore a lot of BS on the net here, but to behave like this in a thread that complains about behavior like this is just classic. I read this forum a heck of a lot more than I post on it, which is the case for many. And should be the case for others...

Check out the drum corps forum if you want to see mean...

Tony "thinks Doc is funny but is worried he might have an alcohol problem" Tuba

bring back the old tubnet

[TexTuba]