Myth or truth, running A/C in your car reduces gas mileage

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Rick Denney
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Re: Myth or truth, running A/C in your car reduces gas mileage

Post by Rick Denney »

windshieldbug wrote:
tbn.al wrote:Subtract the savings on 100 tankfuls from the cost of repair after a collision caused by hyper inflated tires on a rain slick road and you are major screwed.
OK; I'll bite:

Racing in the rain meant you put on well-treaded tires pumped way up to drain water from the treads.

On a "rain-slicked" road, I'd think it would be more tread-wear than over-inflation causing major copulation.
But those rain tires were made of moist bubble gum. The compounds were so soft that if the road dried you'd wipe the tread right down to the carcass in a few laps, assuming you could keep it from melting and sending you into the marbles. That effect overcomes what I'm talking about, and the hypermilers prefer hard compounds to minimize rolling resistance in any case.

The size of the contact patch is directly controlled by the inflation pressure. If you have a 1000-pound load on a tire, the contact patch will be 50 square inches at 20 psi and 20 square inches at 50 psi. It is true that the resulting friction force is not controlled by the contact patch, but rather by the normal force and the coefficient of friction. But that assumes that adhesion is linear, which it isn't. The small contact patch has less area over which to dissipate surface heat, and therefore will go non-linear (i.e., melt) when the rubber breaks down from heat quicker. Underinflation also causes heat, but that's heat back into the tread away from the surface as a result of hysteresis inefficiency caused excessive deflection through the contact patch (and high slip angles). Translated: Underinflation causes tires to get hot and are drag to increase. Overinflation causes tires to skid more easily especially with hard compounds and wet streets. Inflation that leads to even wear usually provides optimum traction in the widest range of conditions.

I also used high pressures when I raced cars on street tires, but the reason was to control the shape of the contact patch. The higher pressure would give me a patch that was wider and shorter (rather than longer and narrower), which would maintain proper tire geometry in hard turns. That would minimize wear on the corners of the tread, and performance and race tires are wide with square corners. Note that in round-tire applications, such as bicycle and non-fatty motorcycle tires, that does not apply--there are no corners on the treads.

There's a reason off-road drivers and skilled snow-drivers "air down" when driving in loose stuff. They need that contact patch as large as possible to provide traction rather than tearing the surface loose (for them it's the surface of the road or what's on the road, but for us it's the surface of the tire--but it's the same principle either way).

Another annoying trait of the hypermilers is that they coast down for about a mile approaching a stop to avoid using their brakes. I love it when someone driving a Pius--er--Prius does that--taking away much of the effect of regenerative braking. But it forces everyone behind them to slow down along the same coast-down curve as the hypermilers, which is always longer and more gradual for them because their tires are overinflated. That means everyone behind them is constantly cycling their brakes and throttles to maintain following distance.

But mostly its something that drives up the annoyance level of the typical psychotics behind the wheels of the surrounding cars, and that is exacerbated (no, that's not related to copulation) by the self-righteousness that the hypermilers exude. I wonder if they have figured in the cost of getting bumped into the ditch by a maniacal redneck in a Ford F-350 pickup.

Rick "finding balance between extremists" Denney
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Re: Myth or truth, running A/C in your car reduces gas mileage

Post by TubaRay »

Doc wrote: Doc (enjoying his AC today and every day)
Same here.
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Re: Myth or truth, running A/C in your car reduces gas mileage

Post by SplatterTone »

Firstone Destination A/T tires. Got 'em from tirerack.com. I like them a lot. I've had them on the Toyota Tacoma for about 20K miles. Real good traction. They are holding up good for wear too. And on the A/C: I read somewhere that it makes about a 3% difference. Not enough to justify sweating and getting stuck to the seat.
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Rick Denney
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Re: Myth or truth, running A/C in your car reduces gas mileage

Post by Rick Denney »

SplatterTone wrote:Firstone Destination A/T tires. Got 'em from tirerack.com. I like them a lot.
No doubt.

But there's just something about the BFG All-Terrain TA tires.

The Pass Patrol of Colorado recommended them exclusively for the jeep trails of the Colorado Plateau (which includes the most amazing jeep trails in the U.S., from above the timberline to desert canyon country). They were the ones that really knew how to rate jeep trail difficulty: Easy, Moderate, Difficult, and VDL.

I've had them on every off-road-capable vehicle I've owned, starting with my 1990 Cherokee. Survived the VDL-rated Pritchett Canyon Trail, the White Rim Trail, the Elephant Hill Trail, and about a dozen others in the Utah canyon country. Then, there was the '94 Grand Cherokee that had Michelins on it when I bought it. One of those tires couldn't take the relatively easy trail over the Henry Mountains, and I had to install a spare in unpleasant conditions. I replaced them. I have them on my current '90 Toyota Pickup, which has endured 190,000 miles of hell (but it's only been rolled once), and there's a fresh set on my '95 T100. There is no better off-road tire that is at least tolerable on pavement. And they are not too expensive.

And VDL means Vehicle Damage Likely.

Rick "who didn't run the AC while driving an average of 0.5 mph when descending Pritchett Canyon, and still got lousy gas mileage" Denney
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