Massive education cutback solutions?

[elimia]

what do you people do for farms in the rest of the country? is all corn?

You are far off mark with that comment - we also grow soybeans!

[rocksanddirt]

what do you people do for farms in the rest of the country? is all corn?

You are far off mark with that comment - we also grow soybeans!

I stand corrected....

[tubashaman2]

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[Todd S. Malicoate]

Yeah! Tax those filthy smokers and drinkers! After all, it's "for the kids"!!!

Look out...the next big "sin tax" might be something you aren't so cavalier about...

[tubashaman2]

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[Todd S. Malicoate]

The schools need money...Though a school district might save money by cutting back in some places, they need to bring in money somehow...

Tell that to these ladies:

Schools don't need more money. They need discipline (and a willingness to "kick out" loser students who only impede the progress of those who are there to LEARN), teachers who care about the welfare of their students, (FAR FEWER) administrators that advance the goals of education and not their personal agendas, and rigorous standards that have consequences when they're not followed or met. Parents who give a s**t would be nice, too, but there's very little that the schools themselves can do about THAT.

"More money" is a cop-out, plain and simple. How many MORE studies must be published showing that there is no relationship between per-pupil spending and education excellence before people start to get it?

[TubaRay]

Preach on, Todd. From my experience, you have nailed it.

[The Big Ben]

Schools don't need more money. They need discipline (and a willingness to "kick out" loser students who only impede the progress of those who are there to LEARN), teachers who care about the welfare of their students, (FAR FEWER) administrators that advance the goals of education and not their personal agendas, and rigorous standards that have consequences when they're not followed or met. Parents who give a s**t would be nice, too, but there's very little that the schools themselves can do about THAT.

What do you propose to do with those kids? If you just remove them from the school and put them out into the street, they will be creating new problems. Something needs to be done with these kids to change them from 'takers' to 'earners'. Ideas?

[lgb&dtuba]

What do you propose to do with those kids? If you just remove them from the school and put them out into the street, they will be creating new problems. Something needs to be done with these kids to change them from 'takers' to 'earners'. Ideas?

Not a clue. How about you? Nothing that's been tried so far seems to work.

[The Big Ben]

What do you propose to do with those kids? If you just remove them from the school and put them out into the street, they will be creating new problems. Something needs to be done with these kids to change them from 'takers' to 'earners'. Ideas?

Not a clue. How about you? Nothing that's been tried so far seems to work.

I can think of one. It would take away lots of personal rights that might be upsetting. Give kids a better environment with structure by making them go to boarding schools. Either public or charter, with barracks, house parents, duties to keep up the school and build pride and responsibility. That would work with some kids. But, taking them from families by government fiat? It's done now in abuse cases but this would be on a much larger scale

The 'throw them out and then throw them in jail" approach is reeeeeally expensive doesn't add much to the American economy except, perhaps in employment for prison guards and construction concerns to build the prisons. Throw their parents in prison? It will punish the parents but how is that going to change the performance of the children?

I guess someone needs to decide just how much the government should intrude into the lives of individual citizens. Taking kids from families and 'raise them differently' is not going to looked highly upon by the populace. Having the schools become the parents of kids (as we are asked to do every day) isn't exactly what America is all about, is it?

[tubashaman2]

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[Todd S. Malicoate]

More money could build these programs. One of the problems the AEP was always filled was lack of trained personnel due to money...

No offense, but BS.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

What do you propose to do with those kids? If you just remove them from the school and put them out into the street, they will be creating new problems. Something needs to be done with these kids to change them from 'takers' to 'earners'. Ideas?

Instead of knee-jerking, I took all of this morning to ponder a response to this legitimate question. I keep coming to the same conclusion...

I don't much give a fig. I don't think it's the job of the public schools to make sure that students don't turn into criminals. I do think it's the job of the public schools to ensure that all students have a fair chance to learn and achieve excellence. I don't think anyone would dispute that some kids in the system only detract from that goal. I'm sick and tired of THEM being the focus of our "school problems"...kick the bastards out and let the police deal with them.

The solutions have to be considered on a case-by-case basis. What worked for Joe Clark in New Jersey wouldn't necessarily be the best solution in Lincoln, Nebraska. That sounds like a cop-out, but I don't think there's a "one-size-fits-all" solution to the problem of persistant trouble-makers in schools. Discipline is the key, though...it is the foundation stone that establishes the format, the environment for academic achievement to occur. Get to school late? Expect latrine-cleaning or graffiti-scrubbing duty. Wear gang clothing? Head home to change...you have 30 minutes. Deal drugs in school? See ya.

What I think should at least be acknowledged, though, is the growing tendency in schools to not confront the problems these hooligans create. They are coddled, given multiple "second chances," and continue their bad behavior to the detriment of the entire system.

Yes, I'm heavy-handed. I look at my 8-year-old son and 7-year-old daughter and I don't want them to have to deal with bomb threats, drugs, and gang violence when they get into high school. I would prefer they be allowed to concentrate on learning the skills they will need to have productive lives. The uniformed private school up the street is looking better and better.

[ken k]

and run the prison like the guy out west who runs the tent prison (I think in Arizona?) No AC 100+ degree weather, basic food no luxuries, after all you are in prison!
k

[Tubaryan12]

I agree with the strategy of an overwhelming and extremely effective standing army to discourage outside invaders, and (in the same way) I agree with a domestic strategy of a large scale prison system (with plenty of room to hold vast numbers of people for their entire lives, if necessary) in order to DISCOURAGE people from doing things that would put them there and in order to ENCOURAGE parents to RAISE THEIR CHILDREN to behave in ways to avoid being put there.

Not only do I agree with this, it should be one person to a cell, and you only get out of that cell for medical reasons (not self inflicted), natural death, or the end of your sentence.

...and please don't lay that "but they're only children" crap on me. One of my kids ended up in J.C. once, and I LEFT them there until the Court threatened to do something to ME if I didn't come and pick them up!

My kids knew that this was the case in my house. My son has admitted in front of other family members that that is the main reason he never got into trouble with the law.

[The Big Ben]

Many studies indicate that teachers who learn to teach on-the-job are often more effective teachers than teachers with ed. degrees...
...I do not have less respect for those who have ed. degrees...' just a bit eless respect for those who teach the ed. courses and run the ed. dept's. at the universities.

I have to agree with you to a certain extent. I learned much more about teaching when I just went out and did it as a substitute teacher for a few years. I did not know how woeful my undergraduate studies were until I did my own research in graduate school that showed just how backward it had been.

[Chuck Jackson]

For sake of argument, I would be interested to know how many of the respondents to this post have taught, or are teachers of any discipline in a public school. Of particular interest would be those with more than 10 years teaching experience and their experiences with NCLB.


Chuck"leery of arm-chair quarterbacking in ANY domain"Jackson

[TMurphy]

[quote="bloke"]Many studies indicate that teachers who learn to teach on-the-job are often more effective teachers than teachers with ed. degrees.../quote]

One of the main points that was driven home by every professor I ever had during my time as an ed. major in college (in the music department, at least), was that no amount of schooling or classes will be able to truly prepare you to teach. You can only really learn to be a good teacher by going out there and doing it, seeing what works and what doesn't. I've been at it three years now, and I know a hell of a lot more about teaching now than I did when I started, and I'm pretty sure I still don't quite know what I'm doing yet.

[Chuck Jackson]

One of the main points that was driven home by every professor I ever had during my time as an ed. major in college (in the music department, at least), was that no amount of schooling or classes will be able to truly prepare you to teach. You can only really learn to be a good teacher by going out there and doing it, seeing what works and what doesn't. I've been at it three years now, and I know a hell of a lot more about teaching now than I did when I started, and I'm pretty sure I still don't quite know what I'm doing yet.

You, sir, are on your way to being a TEACHER. Now, can you provide some examples of your growth and some of the stumbling blocks you may have encountered in these 3 years?

I have been at it for 12+ years and am still searching for answers to my questions.

Chuck"glad for an empirical rather than anecdotal answer"Jackson

[The Big Ben]

For sake of argument, I would be interested to know how many of the respondents to this post have taught, or are teachers of any discipline in a public school. Of particular interest would be those with more than 10 years teaching experience and their experiences with NCLB.

23 years where I am now, 30 years total.

NCLB has not directly affected me but I know that administration has been very concerned. Our district is 'not making adequate progress' and that has deep repercussions. I'm not even sure of what could happen to the school short of allowing kids to attend a school their parents consider better. We are a rural district with a school population of about 1500 students, K-12. There are two other school districts in our county. One is about the same size as ours and the other is significantly smaller. Students already are generally allowed to attend out of district within the county. The next closest schools are 40 miles one way and about 50 the other way. We have a program which supports homeschoolers and offers opportunities to those families which would be hard to provide otherwise. One of these is music in the form of participation in the band program. There is one comprehensive private alternative high school with about 25 students and I do not know if they have the capacity or desire to have more students. I guess my point is that, if parents were presented with an opportunity to attend another school, they would not get a school they don't already have or the sacrifice needed to go to a school elsewhere would be quite high.