Best town for BBQ

[Evil Ronnie]

I'll gladly trade you for some quality pizza/italian food.

Now that would be very welcomed, here. We have good barbecue in Texas(my opinion, anyway), but there are not nearly as many good Italian food places, and still fewer with top-notch pizza. At least that has been my experience, anyway.

Mine, too. And that's just what we have excellent examples of up here. Our town has half a dozen decent Italian places, but little in the Mexican and nothing worth eating in the BBQ departments.

Of course, I'm probably as ignorant about Italian food as Bloke is about BBQ.

Rick "who, unfortunately, has a limited capacity for Italian food" Denney

Rick,

The thing is, there's no way to have it all. Texas has great barbecue, chicken fried steak, and Tex-Mex. Chicago has Italian beef, pierogi, deep dish pizza (and a very good thin crust pizza) and Chicago style hot dogs, (not to
mention hundreds of red checker tablecloth Italian places), but I know a bunch of folks around here who would love nothing more than to have NYC pizza (the kind you fold). Myself, I love a Detroit style coney dog, but that's impossible to find around here.

I lived near Baltimore back in the seventies, and that ruined me for life as far as crabcakes go. You'd get run out of town if you served folks in Baltimore what the rest of us have to settle for. And then there's steamed crabs.

The beautiful thing is that we still have remnants of wonderful regional American food in America. Celebrate these national treasures, because they won't be around forever. Not everything out there is homogenized, sanitized, dumbed down corporate chain restaurant food. Try getting a MR burger at Chili's. Ain't gonna happen. Celebrate New England clam chowder in Boston, pork BBQ sandwiches in North Carolina, scrapple, Lebanon bologna and shoo fly pie in Lancaster county Pennsylvania, cheesesteak sandwiches in Philly, grouper sandwiches and fine Cuban food in Key West, BBQ brisket in the hill country, frogmore stew, she-crab soup, and low country cooking in South Carolina, and all the rest.

I share your frustration, man. Even though Chicago has a thousand Mexican joints, I'd give anything right now for a plate of Tex-Mex style cheese enchiladas, with chile gravy. Not to mention chips with a great chile con queso.

Evil Ronnie

[TubaRay]

The beautiful thing is that we still have remnants of wonderful regional American food in America. Celebrate these national treasures, because they won't be around forever. Not everything out there is homogenized, sanitized, dumbed down corporate chain restaurant food. Try getting a MR burger at Chili's. Ain't gonna happen. Celebrate New England clam chowder in Boston, pork BBQ sandwiches in North Carolina, scrapple, Lebanon bologna and shoo fly pie in Lancaster county Pennsylvania, cheesesteak sandwiches in Philly, grouper sandwiches and fine Cuban food in Key West, BBQ brisket in the hill country, frogmore stew, she-crab soup, and low country cooking in South Carolina, and all the rest.

You make some very good points, here. Let's hope we don't dumb everything down.

I share your frustration, man. Even though Chicago has a thousand Mexican joints, I'd give anything right now for a plate of Tex-Mex style cheese enchiladas, with chile gravy. Not to mention chips with a great chile con queso.
Evil Ronnie

I had some just yesterday evening. The next time I have some, I'll eat them in your honor, Evil Ronnie.

[JCalkin]

The beautiful thing is that we still have remnants of wonderful regional American food in America. Celebrate these national treasures, because they won't be around forever. Not everything out there is homogenized, sanitized, dumbed down corporate chain restaurant food. Try getting a MR burger at Chili's. Ain't gonna happen. Celebrate New England clam chowder in Boston, pork BBQ sandwiches in North Carolina, scrapple, Lebanon bologna and shoo fly pie in Lancaster county Pennsylvania, cheesesteak sandwiches in Philly, grouper sandwiches and fine Cuban food in Key West, BBQ brisket in the hill country, frogmore stew, she-crab soup, and low country cooking in South Carolina, and all the rest.

I share your frustration, man. Even though Chicago has a thousand Mexican joints, I'd give anything right now for a plate of Tex-Mex style cheese enchiladas, with chile gravy. Not to mention chips with a great chile con queso.

Evil Ronnie

The food is what I miss most about living on the East Coast. I grew up in NJ and the Italian food was amazing, especially the pizza. I used to go up to Maine for the lobster when I was in school in NH, and since my dad worked in Philly I used to get cheesesteaks all the time (unlike true Philadelphians, I have no preference in the Pat's/Gino's thing).

Your mention of Lebanon Bologna brought back lots of memories from my childhood. One of the things I miss most is Taylor Ham (aka Pork Roll).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Ham" target="_blank" target="_blank

The food in Nebraska royally sucks, unless you're a fan of fried fried fried til all you can taste is oil and batter and oil. Ugh.

[Rick Denney]

[I share your frustration, man. Even though Chicago has a thousand Mexican joints, I'd give anything right now for a plate of Tex-Mex style cheese enchiladas, with chile gravy. Not to mention chips with a great chile con queso.

Ronnie is evil, but Ronnie is wise.

Most Mexican restaurants (as opposed to proper Tex-Mex joints) do not have chile con carne, the comino-based enchilada sauce that is the hallmark of Tex-Mex. What they have may be tasty, but it's no more Tex-Mex than it is New Mexican without proper Hatch green chile sauce.

I have sampled most of the examples of regional food that you mentioned in their native lands, and it's all good. Yes, I have had stunningly good Italian food in New Jersey, even though I don't particularly like Italian food. And I live close enough to Baltimore now to get a frequent enough sampling of true, proper crab cakes to never again be satisfied with the stuff most restaurants pull out of the freezer and throw in the fryer.

There is only one restaurant in the world where the chile con queso is really what it ought to be, and that's Molina's in Houston. But I grew up eating it, so I confess that I'm biased. Good chips are more common--even Uncle Julio's here in Virginia has good chips and generally good Tex-Mex, but then Uncle Julio provides the recipes and ingredients from the Fort Worth mother ship.

Virginia has no regional fare that I can identify, other than ham, and the local salt-cured country ham is a little hard to enjoy, to be truthful.

I suspect the superior "regional" food in Detroit is Persian, but I like that when it's done right, too.

The chicken-fried steaks at Lamberts in Sikeston, Missouri are as good as any I ever had in Texas, including the outstanding fare at the original Bon Ton Restaurant in La Grange, which was the best I'd ever had before visiting Lamberts. But I could do without the "throwed rolls" schtick.

Rick "who actually found a passable Tex-Mex joint in London when there a month ago--but no Texas BBQ" Denney

[Mojo workin']

cheesesteak sandwiches in Philly

Philly is the capitol of cheesesteak, but Baltimore gives it a run for the money. Captain Harvey's in Dundalk is the king of cheesesteak to most who have been there.

[Dean E]

The non-Kosher, cheese steak references reminded me of this Bar-B burger recipe at http://www.lileks.com" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank. Mmmmm.

[ztuba]

Eljin texas ?spelling? Southside meatmarket

[Rick Denney]

Eljin texas ?spelling? Southside meatmarket

That would be "Elgin", and your spelling reveals incorrect pronunciation, too. The G is hard in the pronunciation of that little burg.

And, yes, the Southside Meat Market is the home of Elgin Smoked Sausage, just about the best sausage available for barbecue applications. There is better at specific restaurants, but not that you can buy packaged for the refrigerator.

Rick "noting a number of peculiar place-name pronunciations around Austin specifically designed to identify out-of-towners" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Since we moved back to Austin, we have been looking for Tex Mex with at least a little bite to it.

Get the Southwestern Enchilada at Chuy's in Austin (the original is on Barton Springs Road). It's not the same as Sadies in Albuquerque, but it is made with the correct New Mexican chile peppers.

Rick "still missing Mexican Carryout Kitchen (RIP) on North 4th Street in Albuquerque's North Valley" Denney

[lgb&dtuba]

OK, it's time to call the congregation to order. Today's sermon is -

It is written: It ain't BBQ if it has milk (of all things unholy) in it. Blech!

Just because you toss something on a grill and get a little smoke on it doesn't make it BBQ.

It ain't BBQ if it's sausage. It may be grilled. It may be smoked. But it ain't BBQ.

If it chewed its cud, it ain't BBQ. Be it brisket or ribs or any other part, if it went, "Moo", it ain't BBQ. It might be melt in your mouth good, but BBQ it's not.

As for egg layers, batter it and fry it and server it on Sundays. But don't over cook it, throw on a little sauce and try to pass it off as BBQ.

BBQ is pork, slow cooked and smoked by indirect heat, then chopped or pulled. Sauce is optional. I won't get into the nuances of the proper sauce out of respect for the true believers. Those are sectarian differences at best.

For the rest of you Philistines, repent before it is too late. I can forgive your ignorance because you ain't from around here, but hear the word and behold true BBQ in all its glory.

Amen, and pass the hushpuppies.

[TubaRay]

Please cite your source, Jim. On what authority do they speak?

[lgb&dtuba]

Please cite your source, Jim. On what authority do they speak?

That was a sermon, not an academic paper.

[lgb&dtuba]

So Jim has become Joe now....

No. Given that most people (two Texans apparently excepted) would have recognized my post as humor, even satire, it hardly seemed necessary. But just for you two

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~class/MA95/ ... gions.html" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Quoting the first paragraph from above:

Barbecue is a cherished example of the cultural heritage of the South to most Southerners, but within the region, debate as to the nature of barbecue rages on. While barbecue-loving Southerners agree that the "Northern" definition of barbecue-- a cook-out in the back-yard-- is ludicrous, barbecue aficionados also like to argue about what constitutes true Southern barbecue. State by state, and even town by town, no method is exactly alike. For the purposes of this paper, the one non-debatable component of barbecue is pork, and the South is bounded by the parameters of the "barbecue belt" (see map). With apologies to the dedicated barbecue chefs of Owensboro and southwestern Texas, Kentucky's misbegotten notion of mutton, and the beef and mesquite of Texas simply do not qualify as barbecue, and these regions will not be closely examined here.

[TubaRay]

So Jim has become Joe now....

No. Given that most people (two Texans apparently excepted) would have recognized my post as humor, even satire, it hardly seemed necessary. But just for you two

I may have missed something, but I believe the Texans got it. It was one o'them forners who missed it.

[lgb&dtuba]

Guess it will have to be a holy war then. I always wanted to gird my loins.

How you're supposed to fit a girdle onto a pork loin I never figured out, though. Doesn't seem like it would add to the flavor much, either.

Note to self: Add section to sermon, vegetables ain't BBQ either.

[Rick Denney]

I've done Chuy's, Rick...many times. They claim New Mexico recipes and there is a hint of the style there. There's just not enough fire and the sopapillas aren't free, like in Santa Fe. They need to be free up there...to put out the fire.

You are right that Chuy's is just a hint, but at least it's that. They do use blue-corn tortillas, too, but for their chicken enchiladas, which are decidedly not New Mexican. Austinites of long experience will remember than late, lamented Tomasita's Santa Fe Station in South Austin. That was a place where you could get true New Mexican specialties, including blue-corn enchiladas with green chile sause, carne adovada, posole, and other examples of the cuisine. It takes more than green chilies to render the New Mexican style accurately.

Even Tomasita's was good only because it was in Austin. In Albuquerque (where I have much more experience, generally not knowing anyone who can afford to live in Santa Fe), Tomasita's would not have stood out at all. In Albuquerque, since the demise of Mexican Carry-Out Kitchen, the only place left to go is Sadie's.

We have a chain here in northern Virginia that isn't as good as Tomasita's, but still sees me often because it's the best we can do: Anita's. It's related to Little Anita's of Albuquerque, but distantly. It does have proper chile, carne adovada, and (occasionally) posole, but they roll their enchiladas, don't use blue corn masa, and serve their sopaipillas as desert, as if they were Tex-Mex.

I know of no place outside of New Mexico that serves sopaipillas as they do in New Mexico, and that's a darn shame.

Rick "who prefers his with honey" Denney

[Rick Denney]

So Jim has become Joe now....

No. Given that most people (two Texans apparently excepted) would have recognized my post as humor, even satire, it hardly seemed necessary.

Hey, Jim: Do not send faster than you can receive.

But even in jest, to assert that beef is not barbecue runs the risk of a slow, painful death...



...by heart disease, as promoters of non-pork varietals subject their version upon you.

Rick "who Virginian, pork-propadandized wife yawns at Tex-Mex but will enthusiastically travel to Texas to visit the in-laws just to have some proper Texas barbecue" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Rick,

If you can ever get up north of Santa Fe into Espanola...

Heh, heh. While none of my friends were rich enough to live in Santa Fe, they were too rich to live in Espanola.

But, come to think of it, I have eaten at Rancho de Chimayo, named for one of the churches on the old high road from Santa Fe to Taos. But we stopped there for lunch...in the daytime.

Rick "wondering if Ken has heard the term 'cholos'" Denney

[Dean E]

Buenos Aires is a wonderful town for the Mr. Creosote experience. The restaurants bring skewers of beef and other carnal deliights until you are ready to explode. The beef is grilled in view of the street by very slow burning coals.

[Rick Denney]

Even a smart aleck white boy in the band like me could be a vato or esé, both terms basically meaning "dude."

My hispanic co-workers would sometimes call me "vato", at least when they weren't calling me "pendejo". But I was never a "pachuko", though I absolutely do remember the distinction between cholos and pachukos from my time in San Antonio. The cholos were the ones whose markings we were forever removing from our traffic signal cabinets. The Town Freaks were the worst, and I'm sure you know who I mean.

Rick "who also misses San Antonio, but perhaps for slightly different reasons" Denney