Were/are any of the repairmen also machinists?

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:00 pm

Training to be a machinist is fine, but why not set your goals a little higher and go for tool & die and/or machine building/design? A machinist is to a tool & die maker as a draftsman is to an engineer. Throw in a little electrical savvy and learn a little about programmable controls, and you'll be all set with a group of skills that can take you a long way in the factory automation field.

I spent over 30 years in machine design, tool & die, and controls. Being a repairman is nice, but it's certainly rewarding to actually be able to make parts instead of just replace them.

I find repairing music instruments a lot of fun, but if I still had two daughters in college, I probably couldn't have made ends meet as a repairman. Check out the pay for machinists, engineers, machine builders, automation specialists, and repairmen before you make a decision.

Daniel C. Oberloh · Post by **Daniel C. Oberloh** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:55 am

Dan Oberloh was formally trained as a tool and die maker before he opened his shop.

Harold is not quite accurate about my background, I wish he was. I did have a good bit of machinist training but I am actually a formally trained repair tech with additional training in plating and finishing as well as having a background in silver-smithing. These are very good and valuable skills when it comes to repair and restoration of band instruments as well as having good applications to many other trades. Tool and die makers that possess the broadest of knowledge and common sense are rare and very much in demand. The few that I know and have known and am fortunate enough to call my friends are amazing, they are aging and it seems that there are no replacements for them when they retire in the next ten years. Today, everyone seems to be of the mind that computers do it all and they don't have the old ''Yankee" knowhow that at onetime seemed so common (read common sense). I think it is a worthwhile pursuit, provided it is what you really enjoy and that you are willing to make the sacrifices you must make in order to acquire the vast skills and knowledge needed for the job. I often tell those who are thinking what I do for a trade might be a good job for them, that they might consider welding, machining, tool and die, sheet-metal fabrication, electrician, plumber, etc. These are the jobs that the high school guidance counselors seem to overlook or ignore. When it is all said and done, somebody has to actually make or construct the stuff we use in this world. The lawyers and computer programmers are not the ones who make it all happen, its the folks who actually get their hands dirty and have to shower after work. Just a few late night, after rehearsal thoughts.

Daniel C. Oberloh
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
www.oberloh.com

ThomasDodd · Post by **ThomasDodd** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:04 pm

Just where exactly is a tool & die maker supposed to make stuff?

The shops around here (and back home) are all closed. They went away when the manufacturing plants closed, since they were no longer needer to keep the plants running.
Most machining today is done via CNC machins, with direct from Autocad programming.

I've gone looking for a shop to make one off items, and they aren't here. I have found online companies that do it, but you have to enter the drawing using there software, and which gebnerated the tool paths automatically. Their employies are there to move the material form machine to machine and pack it for shipping.

I did the Vo-tech machine shop classes. When I had trouble fining a jobe, I look to put those skills to use, but there was no where to go. Aruond here you cannot even find a place that does engine machining. Those shops all closed too.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:42 pm

ThomasDodd wrote:Just where exactly is a tool & die maker supposed to make stuff? The shops around here (and back home) are all closed.

We've lost several machine-builders and tool & die shops here in Southern Indiana, too! In fact, the one I worked for went under in January of 2003. However, there are still several shops around here that can make parts from scrawlings on napkins and paper sacks. The tool & die trade around here has more-or-less changed to injection mold repairing. I say repairing because a large percentage of molds are being build in China, Portugal, Taiwan, and South America. These off-shore molds seldom come in 'ready to run' so there is still a need for toolmakers. Machine-builders around here are still alive and well... especially for secondary tooling for automotive plastics.
I used to do quite a bit of business with firms in Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. The chronic complaint was the same as yours... there just aren't many tool & die/machine building shops in the south. Don't know why.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:53 pm

Dan, the USA once also had a thriving machine tool manufacturing business. But you could see the writing on the wall when the (unnamed Taiwanese brand) salesman proudly told me that the big difference between his vertical mill and a Briidgeport was the amount of putty used to finish the iron castings...

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:40 pm

Who does Richard Simmons play for?

ThomasDodd · Post by **ThomasDodd** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:50 am

TubaTinker wrote:
ThomasDodd wrote:Just where exactly is a tool & die maker supposed to make stuff? The shops around here (and back home) are all closed.
I used to do quite a bit of business with firms in Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. The chronic complaint was the same as yours... there just aren't many tool & die/machine building shops in the south. Don't know why.

So if I ever need to fall back on the vo-tech training, I should come your way?

Where then?

Chuck, I'd love to get my hands on an old Bridgeport. Not even a good one, just a 3 speed belt driven, no CNC, not even numeric readout. Heck I don't even want power feed..

A similar lathe would be nice too. I used a betl driven 8 speed South Bend lathe in school that I'd love to have now.

But all I find are too far away to pickup, and too expensive to ship.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:40 am

ThomasDodd wrote:
TubaTinker wrote:
ThomasDodd wrote:Just where exactly is a tool & die maker supposed to make stuff? The shops around here (and back home) are all closed.
I used to do quite a bit of business with firms in Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. The chronic complaint was the same as yours... there just aren't many tool & die/machine building shops in the south. Don't know why.
So if I ever need to fall back on the vo-tech training, I should come your way?

The tool & die trade has changed a lot in Southern-Indiana and a couple of the large machine-builders are gone. The advent of just-in-time manufacturing has pretty much put an end to the manufacture of high-volume automation equipment that used to be the life-blood of the area. However, there still seems to be quite a bit of demand for specialists who know their way around automated secondary tooling. This is a growing area with lots of smaller (under 300 employees) factories that supply automotive parts to final assembly plants. I'm about to turn 60 and was involved in automation sales for the last 15 or so years. For an old guy like me (especially one who was a salesman/engineer/designer my time has passed. However, for a person with training in machining/design/controls background, I'd say the Evansville, Indiana area is fairly attractive.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:56 am

Dan, isn't Nippon Denso pretty big in the Kentucky/Tennessee area? We used to deal quite a bit with their Marysville, TN plant.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:56 am

Chuck(G) wrote:Dan, isn't Nippon Denso pretty big in the Kentucky/Tennessee area? We used to deal quite a bit with their Marysville, TN plant.

I think Nippon and Hitachi both have plants in Tennessee and Kentucky. What's done wonders for the Evansville, Indiana area is the Toyota plant in Princeton (30 miles north). I'm out of the automotive tooling business now, but every time I turn around, there is a new satellite plant spinning up. Dana in Owensboro, Ky is going strong building Toyota truck frames. There is a REAL American plant in Jasper, Indiana that is still holding it's own... Kimball International. Forty years ago they were known for their pianos. They tried to get into organs but got burned real bad by the Casio-type names. The experience with electronics eventually introduced them as a very strong player in automotive electronics... specifically braking systems.