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I live in a city where people regularly drink $2 bottles of water and $5 expresso drinks and yet the local (and national) news seems obsessed with "high gas prices."

George Will wrote a great article about this in Newsweek a few months back.

Too much hype? I know the airlines have big fuel costs and this no doubt impacts truck drivers as well, but by and large shouldn't most of us quit whining?

From my most recent blog...

http://blog.myspace.com/mellowsmokeman

Gas and oil prices...

It has recently been called to my attention that people on MySpace are planning some sort of gas boycott to protest rising gas prices. I wrote a comment responding to this subject in a friend's blog that was suggesting that everyone do this, which was subsequently erased by the blog author. I thought I might repost it here to perhaps impart a small amount of wisdom to anybody who wonders why gas prices have gotten so high, and oil company profits appear to be through the roof.

So here it is...

OK. So what's going to happen if people do not buy gas that day? They'll still buy gas the next day. It's not like they won't do any traveling. The gas companies will make up for the loss of people not buying the day of the protest by the same people filling up the day before and the day after.

Economics 101 tells us that prices are based on supply and demand. With the striving and ever-growing industrial east, including China and India, the demand has gone up and up and up. And think about the supply. The Katrina disaster has brought US refinery production down by 5%. If it was all about lining the pockets of oil executives, gold would not be approaching $650.00 an ounce. We have reached a critical point in oil production, and the prices, while slipping from time to time, will continue to raise until the end of this age. It is just the way the free market works. If one really wants to do something they should get an alternatively fueled vehicle. And even then, it will only help their own pocketbooks. It won't be conceived by oil company executives as "sticking it to them".

And don't forget about the stockholders of these companies. They have a duty to the people who invest in them, and they must make a profit. What are they going to do, make their investors eat crap just because they "feel" for all the poor Americans who are paying more for gas? Come on. And with the prices getting higher and higher, the mark-up will have to get higher as well. Look at baseball players and their salaries. Same thing. Supply and demand. And the teams' cities want to win, just like stockholders, so the prices for good and more marketable players go up and up. Simple stuff.

So think twice before placing blame here, there, and everywhere, and remember that America's free market economy is still the economy of the free, unlike most of the world. We still have choices and can still go across the street to a gas station that is charging $0.04 per gallon less if we are so inclined.

I hope gas prices go down like everyone else. It isn't easy to pay so much in gas. But also think about this. So many of you who are into protesting for "the left" think that Europe is fantastic, the most liberated place on the planet. It is so much better run by its leaders, so much fairer to its people in all of its social democracies, so much more liberated in its moral outlook and ethics. Do you really think so? Perhaps you should move there.

These prices are from August, but one can see the difference anyway...

Petrol prices in the US and Europe
Country

US$ per litre* (unleaded)
* conversion: 1 U.S. gallon = 3.8 litres

UK
1.1760
Norway
1.1428
Finland
1.1096
Netherlands
1.0315
France
1.0057
Belgium
0.9883
Italy
0.9791
Sweden
0.9780
Denmark
0.9662
Germany
0.9307
Austria
0.8517
Ireland
0.8456
Hungary
0.8194
Portugal
0.7884
Switzerland
0.7716
Poland
0.7590
Luxembourg
0.7572
Greece
0.7440
Spain
0.7359
Czech Republic
0.7358
USA
0.3940

Have a nice day.

-MSM

I spent Christmas in Vietnam. The average executive earns about $200 a month. Gasoline, which is sold on the free market by different companies (BP, Esso, CalTex, etc.) went for about the equivalent of $3.50 for regular. Few people can afford to own a car.




Here is a little chart that gives the gas prices from my city, Riverside, California. You can come back any time and see how the price changes. (It's a static picture, so you won't see the price change before your eyes. You have to refresh the picture.)

bloke wrote:If gas is s-o-o-o-o expensive, why do endless millions of Americans CONTINUE to idle their gas-guzzlin' SUV's in drive-through banks, restaurants, and pharmacies?

To kindly contribute to global warming, so that my winters here in the northeast will become more temperate...

MellowSmokeMan wrote:I hope gas prices go down like everyone else. It isn't easy to pay so much in gas. But also think about this. So many of you who are into protesting for "the left" think that Europe is fantastic, the most liberated place on the planet. It is so much better run by its leaders, so much fairer to its people in all of its social democracies, so much more liberated in its moral outlook and ethics. Do you really think so? Perhaps you should move there.

These prices are from August, but one can see the difference anyway...

Petrol prices in the US and Europe
Country

US$ per litre* (unleaded)
* conversion: 1 U.S. gallon = 3.8 litres

UK
1.1760
Norway
1.1428
Finland
1.1096
Netherlands
1.0315
France
1.0057
Belgium
0.9883
Italy
0.9791
Sweden
0.9780
Denmark
0.9662
Germany
0.9307
Austria
0.8517
Ireland
0.8456
Hungary
0.8194
Portugal
0.7884
Switzerland
0.7716
Poland
0.7590
Luxembourg
0.7572
Greece
0.7440
Spain
0.7359
Czech Republic
0.7358
USA
0.3940

Have a nice day.

-MSM

Hey Mellow,
We are already on the fence of p------s and I won't step over it here.
1) As far as Europe, one of the many things I realized living there, was that there is no need for a car when public transportation works so well. I can think of a lot of friends who are not affected by the high cost of gas in Europe, so the figures are misleading to say the least.
2) You seem to have some very public "rituals" that would certainly be more acceptable or even legal in parts of Europe, maybe you'd like to visit me when/if I move back?
3) If someone thinks that gas prices are news, then we're looking exactly where we're supposed to look. Or, "don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain".

Peace.
ASG

Yeah! There is a thread on the Community Music Forum regarding high fuel prices. Some of the conductors are afraid that members of their volunteer community bands will stay away from rehearsals because of the higher fuel prices. GOOD GREIF! Even if fuel prices go up another dollar ($3 to $4)... that only an increase of three or four cents per mile! Hell... if that's going to keep someone away from rehearsals, they aren't serious about getting there in the first place. All of this comes at a time when those goofy Californians are paying $8 a gallon for bottled water

As one previous poster pointed out... here in the US, we've got it made in the shade as far as fuel prices go. Maybe when oil reaches $150 a barrel, the oil companies will turn on the idle pumps in the oil fields that stretch across Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, and Southern Illinois!

Am I sick of it? Nope.

I can choose not to buy a $2 bottle of water. I can choose not to buy $5 espresso....

What choice to I have when I buy gasoline? THe choice between $2.95 and $3.03.. thats about it.

The same choice I was given three years ago when I had to buy a home 22 miles from work... because every home everywhere around DC was prohbitively expensive, and costs were rising 15-20 percent a year....

Its all about $$$... give me an alternative that costs less than gasoline, and will get me to work in less than an hour (trains suck here...) and I will take it.

I am shopping for a fuel-efficient motorcyle now--the only cheap option I can think of--to commute on the pleasant-weather days at least.

Of course, we all know we need an alternative to gasoline... Hybrids were an OK attempt at conservation... but conservation doesnt cut it. But hey, I am NOT an engineer, thats not my job. Perhaps our government should spend some of that gas tax money to pay engineers/scientists to come up with a viable alternate-fuel engine that can be implemented for a reasonable amount of $$$ for the American people? A fuel source that can be manufactured in the US?

All we CAN do is talk about it, thats then only way things will get done. Unless someone here has the ability to research and design an alternative-fuel engine? If so, please do.

I have a sailboat with a 10 horse diesel that is really fuel cost effective. The problem is that there are so few places I have to go that are accesible by sailboat.

tubatooter1940 wrote:I have a sailboat with a 10 horse diesel that is really fuel cost effective. The problem is that there are so few places I have to go that are accesible by sailboat.

You really need to hang out with a better class of people!

I've thought for some time that we're in the throes of worldwide inflation. Folks carp about the price of gas going up, but just about any commodity metal has gone up just as fast or faster. Real estate has likewise made big gains in dollar valuation. So, after energy, metals and property, what else is there?

Around the beginning of last year, I put a bunch of cash into gold shares. My broker thought I was nuts when I told him my inflation theory. Well, he's come around to my way of thinking. Gold closed overseas at $661 today and word is that the large banks are buying the stuff as---get this--an inflation hedge.

I figure we're in for a 1980-style "correction" in the worth of a dollar.

If prices are allowed to float on the market, it may be expensive, but it will be available. As prices rise, people will conserve one way or the other. Right now, the price of this necessity is still be compared to luxuries for most people.

If prices are fixed to keep them relatively low, we will have gas lines, because people will not find it economically desirable to conserve (except by the incessant paternalistic blather we already habitually ignore). The best way to curb the use of gas-guzzling SUV's is for the price of gasoline to move past the point where it affects minor lifestyle choices and into real money.

I drive 30,000 miles a year. At today's prices, that costs me about $4500. I've paid $4500 for a tuba.

Rick "who was much more bothered by the $1000 propane bill that came three times this last winter" Denney

TubaTinker wrote:Yeah! There is a thread on the Community Music Forum regarding high fuel prices. Some of the conductors are afraid that members of their volunteer community bands will stay away from rehearsals because of the higher fuel prices.

For some people it is not uncommon to drive over an hour each way to a community band practice, and that 2 hour round trip could now cost them $15-$25 per week on an already strained budget. Since my relocation, the bigband I play bass bone in (yes, LT, a REAL bigband with 5 saxes, 4 trumpets, 4 bones and a rhythm section! ) is now a four hour round trip. Considering we don't have a CD out yet and we usually do more rehearsals than paying gigs, I will more than likely just be breaking even driving my modest Sable (aka Taurus) wagon. Of course, it is more than worth it playing great music with better musicians than myself, but paying a few bills is nice too.

I think more people are in their "complain range" than their "action range" at this point. $3.00/gallon gas hurts a little bit now, but people are willing to live with it. $5.00/gallon gas would be a different story.

MellowSmokeMan wrote:Petrol prices in the US and Europe
Country

US$ per litre* (unleaded)
* conversion: 1 U.S. gallon = 3.8 litres

UK
1.1760
Norway
1.1428
Finland
1.1096
Netherlands
1.0315
France
1.0057
Belgium
0.9883
Italy
0.9791
Sweden
0.9780
Denmark
0.9662
Germany
0.9307
Austria
0.8517
Ireland
0.8456
Hungary
0.8194
Portugal
0.7884
Switzerland
0.7716
Poland
0.7590
Luxembourg
0.7572
Greece
0.7440
Spain
0.7359
Czech Republic
0.7358
USA
0.3940

Have a nice day.

-MSM

And fuel prices in Canada work out to about 80 cents US per litre. That's double the US cost of about 40 cents! Also keep in mind that Canada is the #1 exporter of oil to the USA (ie not any country in the middle east).

WOW. People drive 30000 MILES a year. Others accept to be on the road for hours to get to their band practice (think of the practise potential in that). No, nothing to whine about.

On the parking lot at work, I encounter quite some extremes: A brandnew Dodge Ram pickup truck (all black, aluminum wheels, a sticker on its rear proudly saying "Leer" (= "Empty"). The thing is HUGE. I have all reason to believe it features the very same drive train as it will in the US.
This is Vorarlberg, a region where roads in villages have lowered curbs so one can use the sidewalk IN CASE there is someone else on the road going the opposite direction, without ruining their suspension.
The other extreme are "Mopedautos", tiny little car-looking objects driven by a 350 cm³ diesel engine. Yes, that´s about 24 cubic inches. In my European opinion, both are ridiculous.

I can assure you, eventually you´ll accept paying 5$ a gallon and more. We ARE there, we DO that, we STILL have money to buy the T-shirt. One liter of unleaded fuel will cost about 1.30€ in Germany.
I don´t really mind, because we make offshore cranes, and oil companies are on a hype right now, renovating their tossed old drilling rigs, buying all the cranes we can possibly make.

A lot of the gasoline in the United States still originates domestically. Here in Southern California they do a wonderful job of camouflaging the oilwells. I know of a few, around Montebello (a city close to downtown Los Angeles) which are fairly prominent. Beverly Hills has them, but you don't see them. Signal Hill (a tiny city surrounded by Long Beach, named for an oil company that went out of business in 1967) also has some camouflaged wells.

You want cheap gas? Go live in Caracas--$.03 per liter--or less than $0.12 per gallon.

Chuck(G) wrote:You want cheap gas?

Chuck(G) wrote:You want cheap gas? Go live in Caracas--$.03 per liter--or less than $0.12 per gallon.

No, thanks.

tubeast wrote:On the parking lot at work, I encounter quite some extremes: A brandnew Dodge Ram pickup truck (all black, aluminum wheels, a sticker on its rear proudly saying "Leer" (= "Empty"). The thing is HUGE. I have all reason to believe it features the very same drive train as it will in the US..

If the sticker you see is on a canopy on that Dodge Ram, it's the name of the firm (Leer Products):

http://www.leer.com

It has nothing to do with empty, other than possibly echoing the contents of the owner's head.