Christmas Letter

[Chuck(G)]

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

[dmmorris]

Nice Doc!

Good CHRISTmas cheer to ya.

[chipster55]

Thanks Doc!

and to anybody & everybody:

MERRY CHRISTMAS

[Dylan King]

Anyone who knows Jesus knows that He condemns Christmas and all things pagan, that these are false "holy days", and are actually used as tools of deception for Satan the devil himself.

I John 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

I hope everyone has a wonderful Sabbath day.

-MSM

[Mike Finn]

Wonderful post, Doc! I was chuckling and nodding my head in agreement the whole way through.
However...
I checked out that site where you can see if things are hoaxes or not, and although it sounds like something Jesus would say, this "letter" was not actually written by our Saviour. Oh well, it's a pretty good message anyway, whoever wrote it!
For now: "Happy Holidays" and on December 25th: "MERRY CHRISTMAS"
MF

[TubaRay]

Wonderful post, Doc! I was chuckling and nodding my head in agreement the whole way through.
However...
I checked out that site where you can see if things are hoaxes or not, and although it sounds like something Jesus would say, this "letter" was not actually written by our Saviour. Oh well, it's a pretty good message anyway, whoever wrote it!
For now: "Happy Holidays" and on December 25th: "MERRY CHRISTMAS"
MF

An interesting take on this, Mike. I enjoyed reading the letter, and your response, as well.

[Tubaryan12]

Doc,

Speaking as a non-christian, thank you.

[Mike Finn]

An interesting take on this, Mike. I enjoyed reading the letter, and your response, as well.

Thanks Ray! I'm a little hesitant to post here sometimes, I know I've got an odd sense of humor... I just hope everybody else knows I was joking and that I didn't really look it up on Snopes... I had just recently read about how that letter floating around with the anti-PC rhetoric attributed to Andy Rooney wasn't written by him, and he's actually trying to sue the person responsible for starting it. He claims to have traced it to a PO box somewhere, how, I'm not so sure.
Cheers!
MF
*pre-post-edit* I just read Doc's most recent post (should appear right before this one) and he has absolutely hit the nail on the head, in my opinion. My earlier attempt at humor wasn't meant to take anything away from the original letter, and I hope it wasn't misconstrued.

[TubaRay]

[I just read Doc's most recent post (should appear right before this one) and he has absolutely hit the nail on the head, in my opinion.

He has. He has.

My earlier attempt at humor wasn't meant to take anything away from the original letter, and I hope it wasn't misconstrued.

I don't think you took anything away at all.

[ken k]

great post,

amen

[tofu]

http://badaboo.free.fr/merryxmas.swf

Merry Christmas to all!

[Dylan King]

Letter From Jesus Christ, concerning His birthday celebration.

Dear Children:
It has come to my attention that many of you are upset that
folks are taking My name out of the season. Maybe you've
forgotten that I wasn't actually born during this time of
the year and that it was some of your predecessors who
decided to celebrate My birthday on what was actually a time of a pagan
festival. Although....... I do appreciate being remembered anytime.

I liked this post right off the bat, as it begins with an element of proof, as Christ certainly was not born in the winter, as the sheep would not have been out to pasture. As far as birthdays go, there isn’t any evidence that birthdays were ever observed by God’s people, and doing so is worshiping a human being, which Christ wouldn’t appreciate anytime, and would certainly condemn all the time.

How I personally feel about this celebration can probably be most easily
understood by those of you who have been blessed with children of your
own. I don't care what you call the day. If you want to celebrate My
birth just, GET ALONG AND LOVE ONE ANOTHER. Now, having said that let Me
go on.
If it bothers you that the town in which you live doesn't
allow a scene depicting My birth, then just get rid of a
couple of Santa's and snowmen and put in a small Nativity
scene on your own front lawn. If all My followers did that
there wouldn't be any need for such a scene on the town
square because there would be many of them all around town.

People should be able to do what they want with their idols in America, but if they really think they are Christians they might want to think about what Christ thinks of such things as “nativity scenesâ€

[tubeast]

Dylan,
why do you want to spoil it for everybody ?

Just a few remarks, not in order of appearance as in your last post.
The christmas tree is not holy, it´s a symbol.
What virtues it symbolizes is clearly described in a German song "Oh Tannenbaum", which I could share some time later if you so desire.

If Jesus happened not to celebrate His birthday, why couldn´t we ? Our coulture may be based on biblical text, but are we limited in our actions to what´s written in the Bible ?
And what exactly is being celebrated here? Nobody is singing "For he´s a jolly good fellow" or "Happy birthday to you".
I´ve been taught that this is the celebration of the fact that God sent His son to live and teach among us, and to bear the burden of mankind´s sins some thirty years later. Further we remember that he sent a CHILD, born as the poorest among the poor. There´s a lot more, but I´m running out of time.
Read you later.

[iiipopes]

If ever a thread needed LOTS of pictures of food, this is it!

[tubeast]

Triple-I-popes,

I don´t agree. If you want a short explanation, please scroll down to the last three paragraphs.

I celebrate my birthday. So does my family. Doing so, we express our gratitude for my Mom and I surviving a life threatening situation: a mother giving childbirth.
Especially I owe my Mom gratitude for taking that chance of having me.
Whether we believe that this gratitude is owed solely to the humans involved or to a superhuman entity of anyone´s choice as well is totally left to everybody´s personal beliefs.
If someone else thinks this kind of gratitude should not be expressed (or felt), well, that´s their choice, too.

My family and I celebrate Christmas. Doing so, we express gratitude for the Lord sending Himself (in the form of Christ) to earth, with all kinds of positive consequences that last until today and that I don´t feel appropriate to discuss in detail in this place. We (our family) also take this event as an opportunity to see each other ONCE A YEAR at the least.

WE choose not to put up a "Krippe" (as Germans call a scene depicting the Holy Family in the stable), but certainly friends of mine do, and in many churches a large "Krippe" will be set up with the beginning of Advent. Many people here don´t just buy one, but take the time to build one of their own. This is a form of Advent, the preparation for the arrival of Christ on earth. This is not worshiping the "Krippe", it is a traditional form of meditation over a part of Christ´s life that is so important that the Bible describes it at length. It also used to be a way older (illiterate) generations passed on the Christmas "story" to (illiterate as well) young generations.

We also choose to decorate a Christmas tree. It´s a tradition we certainly could survive without, but it´s still important to us. It may not have anything to do with Advent and Christmas themselves, but that is not important at all. Some stuff that we decorate that tree with is from pre-WWII times. 86% of my home city had been levelled even with the ground by 1945, so I assume people had more urgent problems to take care of back then and STILL took the trouble to preserve those items. I never met these people (my grandparents) because they died ten years before I was born. These items on the tree basically are all I got to remind me of them, and I take the freedom to use them accordingly.

So here comes this guy stating that upon doing so (being grateful as described above) I am worshiping human beings and will be condemned by God. (Read his first paragraph in bold typing).
He doesn´t say HE wouldn´t celebrate his birthday for the reasons he states.
He doesn´t say HE chooses not to celebrate Christmas (and use certain traditional symbols in the process).
He says it´s CONDEMNABLY WRONG (generally) to do so, and seeks proof for that in the Bible.
That happens to be a text which forms the common foundation of authority (or, rather, LOVE) for ALL christians, including me.

I´m not saying Dylan is wrong in believing what he believes. I´m not saying he´s wrong to publicly state his beliefs, neither.
I´m saying he´s wrong to state his beliefs in a way that implies that they are global truths.
I´m saying that by posting his beliefs in a public forum he expresses his wish to discuss his position with others.

You (iiipopes) state this discussion is boring (or futile) to the point that justifies posting pics of food.
I think it´s interesting to the point that I want to actively enter it.

I also think both (yours and mine) positions are OK.

[Dylan King]

Dylan,
why do you want to spoil it for everybody ?

Just a few remarks, not in order of appearance as in your last post.
The christmas tree is not holy, it´s a symbol.
What virtues it symbolizes is clearly described in a German song "Oh Tannenbaum", which I could share some time later if you so desire.

If Jesus happened not to celebrate His birthday, why couldn´t we ? Our coulture may be based on biblical text, but are we limited in our actions to what´s written in the Bible ?
And what exactly is being celebrated here? Nobody is singing "For he´s a jolly good fellow" or "Happy birthday to you".
I´ve been taught that this is the celebration of the fact that God sent His son to live and teach among us, and to bear the burden of mankind´s sins some thirty years later. Further we remember that he sent a CHILD, born as the poorest among the poor. There´s a lot more, but I´m running out of time.
Read you later.

You can observe your "culture" in any way you see fit. I was not trying to judge your traditions. I was only pointing out the FACT that there is absolutely no basis for celebrating "Christmas" or any birthday in the Bible. Many people choose not to make the Holy Bible the absolute place for all knowledge, and I understand that. As one who looks for truth in God's word, I do not choose to live my life that way.

God actually does have a series of real Holy days that His people are commanded to observe, in addition to His weekly Sabbath. If you have a Bible and are curious about the true Holy days that represent God's 7,000 year creation in duplicating Himself through mankind, and not the ones that were created by Satan the devil, take a look at Leviticus 23. Jesus and all of his Apostles observed the commanded feasts of the Torah, and condemned pagan practices at all times, which of course includes birthdays, Christmas, Easter, Holloween, and any other observable day that is not commanded by God.

Of course, only one who is called to understand God's truth would ever take any of this seriously, and there are very few that do. Thes are perilous times, and those who have the truth of the great God of the Universe will be persecuted, especially by the Asyrians, so I'm not surprized at your reaction at all.

Matt 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

[Dylan King]

Triple-I-popes,

I don´t agree. If you want a short explanation, please scroll down to the last three paragraphs.

I celebrate my birthday. So does my family. Doing so, we express our gratitude for my Mom and I surviving a life threatening situation: a mother giving childbirth.
Especially I owe my Mom gratitude for taking that chance of having me.
Whether we believe that this gratitude is owed solely to the humans involved or to a superhuman entity of anyone´s choice as well is totally left to everybody´s personal beliefs.
If someone else thinks this kind of gratitude should not be expressed (or felt), well, that´s their choice, too.

My family and I celebrate Christmas. Doing so, we express gratitude for the Lord sending Himself (in the form of Christ) to earth, with all kinds of positive consequences that last until today and that I don´t feel appropriate to discuss in detail in this place. We (our family) also take this event as an opportunity to see each other ONCE A YEAR at the least.

WE choose not to put up a "Krippe" (as Germans call a scene depicting the Holy Family in the stable), but certainly friends of mine do, and in many churches a large "Krippe" will be set up with the beginning of Advent. Many people here don´t just buy one, but take the time to build one of their own. This is a form of Advent, the preparation for the arrival of Christ on earth. This is not worshiping the "Krippe", it is a traditional form of meditation over a part of Christ´s life that is so important that the Bible describes it at length. It also used to be a way older (illiterate) generations passed on the Christmas "story" to (illiterate as well) young generations.

We also choose to decorate a Christmas tree. It´s a tradition we certainly could survive without, but it´s still important to us. It may not have anything to do with Advent and Christmas themselves, but that is not important at all. Some stuff that we decorate that tree with is from pre-WWII times. 86% of my home city had been levelled even with the ground by 1945, so I assume people had more urgent problems to take care of back then and STILL took the trouble to preserve those items. I never met these people (my grandparents) because they died ten years before I was born. These items on the tree basically are all I got to remind me of them, and I take the freedom to use them accordingly.

So here comes this guy stating that upon doing so (being grateful as described above) I am worshiping human beings and will be condemned by God. (Read his first paragraph in bold typing).
He doesn´t say HE wouldn´t celebrate his birthday for the reasons he states.
He doesn´t say HE chooses not to celebrate Christmas (and use certain traditional symbols in the process).
He says it´s CONDEMNABLY WRONG (generally) to do so, and seeks proof for that in the Bible.
That happens to be a text which forms the common foundation of authority (or, rather, LOVE) for ALL christians, including me.

I´m not saying Dylan is wrong in believing what he believes. I´m not saying he´s wrong to publicly state his beliefs, neither.
I´m saying he´s wrong to state his beliefs in a way that implies that they are global truths.
I´m saying that by posting his beliefs in a public forum he expresses his wish to discuss his position with others.

You (iiipopes) state this discussion is boring (or futile) to the point that justifies posting pics of food.
I think it´s interesting to the point that I want to actively enter it.

I also think both (yours and mine) positions are OK.

Once again, I do think celebrating your birthday is fine and dandy for you. But for those who know there is a great God of creation, and want to follow what He says, they may want to look into what the Bible really says about such practices.

Matt 6:24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

Celebrating Christmas is fine in the eyes of man, but if one is trying to please God, well, they might want to find out what God really wants by actually reading what He says about it. He is actually going to punish this great nation very soon for straying from His path that blessed us so much, and it is exactly things like Christmas that makes him angry. And part of that punishment is going to come down straight out of Western Europe as a new Holy Roman Empire, with the Germans at the gate of the USA, this time killing most of us. I find it interesting that you are involved in this topic, for I also believe that very soon the very people in your nation will be used by God to punish mine.

Ezekiel 23:9 “ Therefore I have delivered her
Into the hand of her lovers,
Into the hand of the Assyrians,
For whom she lusted.
10 They uncovered her nakedness,
Took away her sons and daughters,
And slew her with the sword;
She became a byword among women,
For they had executed judgment on her.

Ezekiel 20:11 And I gave them My statutes and showed them My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them.’ 12 Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them. 13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’;[c] and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths.

What is a true belief anyway if one doesn't BELIEVE that it is a "global truth". I think you just don't like hearing the truth, Hans. What is it, we are free to express our beliefs only we don't believe it on a global scale?

I know you think your position is OK, but where do you get the moral authority to back that up?

Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death.

[Dennis K.]

Just a little note here...
As a professional musician, I get to play at a bunch of different churches - let me re-phrase that: I get to worship with everyone from the Catholics to the Pentecostals. I take part in worhip services of vastly diferent traditions and often conflicting theologies.
Its great that you guys have strong opinions about this Christmas letter. As ya'll find yourselves in various settings through the holidays, pray for the reconciliation of all churches, that they may be brought wholly and fully to Him who is able to keep us from falling.
Peace, gents.

[Dylan King]

...pray for the reconciliation of all churches, that they may be brought wholly and fully to Him who is able to keep us from falling.

Unfortunately, this is exactly what is going to happen! The Christian churches are going to be reconciled by a great false prophet and a false religious leader.

The first beast is this false prophet, and the ten horns are ten kingdoms of a united european empire, which is ever so quickly forming under our watch.

Rev13:1 Then I[a] stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?â€

[iiipopes]

Getting involved in religious discussion on a forum is a no-win situation, because views are so personal, and in the limited context of a forum thread the topic cannot be discussed in necessary depth.

That said, anyone who pretends to preach on Revelation must read the following book, written by the Chair of the editing committee of the only current English translation of the Bible that is universally accepted by all major denominations, most minor and split-off denominations and sects, and has the input of more well-known, well-read and the best respected theologians across the board:

Breaking the Code: Understanding the Book of Revelation
by Bruce M. Metzger

An excerpt of his CV:

Bruce Manning Metzger (born 1914) is a professor emeritus at Princeton Theological Seminary and Bible editor who serves on the board of the American Bible Society. He is a respected scholar of Greek, New Testament and Old Testament Bible, and has written prolifically on these subjects.

Metzger has edited and provided commentary for many Bible translations and has written dozens of books. He was a contributor to the Apocrypha of the Revised Standard Version of the Bible, editor of the Reader's Digest Bible (a condensed version of the RSV) and general editor of the New Revised Standard Version. He was also one of the editors of the United Bible Societies' standard Greek New Testament, the starting point for nearly all translations of the New Testament in recent decades.