under-18 crowd

[Doug@GT]

I know the percentage of users in all colleges and universities is roughly 99% - 100%

Am I really in such a minority?



Doug "who neither drank nor did drugs while in college (or high school, for that matter)"

[tubafatness]

Take it from the (soon-to-be-finished) high school student, the correct number is 75-80%

[Chuck(G)]

Getting dissipated by the time you're ready for the Army is one thing, Joe.

Run a poll on cheating in college.

Then go have a drink.

[SplatterTone]

Some of the things where I think public education and public attitudes are:

Cities seem to be preoccupied with image rather than solid infrastructure. So you see new convention centers, sports arenas, etc. being built that add a lot of long term load to the budget. Tulsa is scrounging around trying to come up with the money to pay for its police force.

Along with the quest for a "progressive" image, one sees school districts putting emphasis on showcase schools: schools of science and art (-sy fartsy) and magnet schools. The compensate-for-worthless-parents school doesn't quite have the same snazzy appeal. But that is what is needed.

There is too much emphasis on at-the-end testing rather than at-the-beginning intervention. A psychologist told me that a child's values are mostly set by around eight years of age.

The splitting of the education system into the haves -- the charter schools and private schools -- and the have nots creates a vicious cycle of more demand for more splitting.

There were a lot of school dropouts in the past, and there were plenty of dumbasses running around in the past; but the economy and work requirements could support a lot of people like that back then.

Of course, TV doesn't help with the way it presents false reality. But rather than avoid it, I let my kid watch it from an early age. Partly because it's so ubiquitous, and fighting it is probably a losing battle; and partly because I don't want it to become "forbidden fruit". Then, when something like the Valtrex commercial comes on, I explain what it's about and how that is the real life consequences rather than the blissful, consequence-free version presented by the TV show.

Rather than avoid things that might be viewed as degenerate, I let them come and then try to put them in the proper perspective. I think the child learns more from that than from complete avoidance.

We have seasons 1 - 8 of Southpark on DVD ... and it all stays in proper perspective.

[tubafatness]

From what I've seen, the illegal substance use rate at my high school is about 30% marijuana, 65-75% alcohol, 10-15% other, more serious drugs. Strangely enough, there isn't a high number of driving accidents, police busts and other incidents related to drug use. I don't know if home schooling would be an answer to drug use, though. Home-schooling a kid might make them eager to experience the "real" school scene once they get to college. Such a kid would be highly susceptible to drug and alcohol use, (and abuse.) That, and the likely drop in social interaction that a home-schooled kid would experience might have a negative influence.

[Captain Sousie]

As a teacher who has his finger firmly on the pulse of his high school's 'underground', I can say with complete certainty that the last two places I have taught have had at least 65% participation in drugs/alkyhol. If we include smoking in the mix, it goes to about 80%.

I will most likely home-school my children (my wife, the daughter of a teacher and a teacher herself, agrees) and I am more than able to.

I was home-schooled and I believe that I do fairly well for myself and my family. The thing that most people don't want to hear is that home-schooling doesn't have to be done by only one person or set of parents. My town had a rather active home-school group and we arranged many activities that brought the families together for social and educational reasons. We had a couple of university professors in the group who were home-schooling their children. They taught classes in their own fields and we had a few other parents in the group who had their masters degrees who led classes for many other areas. In a town of fewer than 20,000 people, we had a couple of bands and a few small choirs for the home-school kids.

Bloke may be a bit inflammatory at times but in this case he is right.

Sou

[LoyalTubist]

I taught in public and private (secular and Christian) schools. It might sound strange to some people but the private schools probably had a worse drug problem than the public ones. Now I am not one to stand up for US public schools, either.

Children learn what they see in their parents. No matter what kind of school they are in, they will do what they will do. Probably the public schools have less of a drug problem because most of them work well with the local police and sheriff's departments. I often befriended the officers and deputies who helped patrol the schools and they shared these facts with me.

It was very interesting.

[Uncle Buck]

Sorry, Bloke, but you can't throw out the statements you did and then ask us not to respond to them. I hope the thread doesn't end up locked.

Just to put this in context, I'm writing this as a 35 year old who went to public schools and universities (and had great experiences there), but who has never drank alcohol or used any illegal drug.

It is my opinion that any strategy aimed at protecting children from being exposed to undesirable influences is too scary of a prospect for me. I want my children to grow up with strength to fight those influences, not spend their lives running from them.

My children are still very young, but my hope is that they will be comfortable talking to me about what they experience. If there are drugs, etc. at school, if they get inappropriate pop-ups on the Internet, or whatever else, I hope I can create an environment where my kids will talk to me about it. Talking is better than avoiding.

[TMurphy]

This is what I, as a 23 year old, feel I am supposed to come away from this thread with:

-My parents don't love me because they put me in public school.

-My education obviously was poor, because I attended public school, and a public university.

-I, and all of my peers, and nothing but druggies and drunks, and will not e fit to run the country when our time to do so comes.

Now, I realize I am over-generalizing a bit, and please excuse my hyperbole. It just really seems as though every time I see a post like this, it's just a bunch of negative, pessimistic "gloom-and-doom" nonsense designed to make me see the error and evils of my ways. It's a bit upsetting.

I won't delve much into the issue of homeschooling (as I don't want to steer this into the forbidden.) I also care not to delve into my own life too much, only to say that I do not for one second regret attending public schools, nor do I think my parents made any sort of error sending me there. I learned a lot, not just about math and science but also about life.

I loved my college experience. I made some very dear friends for life, and helped to set myself along the path for my career. I would not give up any minute of that experience.

I have never, EVER used any sort of illegal drug. I did not drink a single drop of alchohol until I was 21, and even then, only in moderation (and on the rare occasions where I went to excess, was never in the position to do something stupid, like drive.) This remains true for the vast majority of my friends--both from high school AND college. Certainly, I knew many people who did get involved in those things. I tried then (and try now) now to associate myself with those people. Television, movies, and the internet have NOTHING to do with the decisions I have made in my life. I was raised to understand what is right, and what is wrong, and I allow my own morals and values to guide my decision making. This is what I got from my parents, the same people who put me in public school.

I'm starting to ramble a bit, but the point is, it is silly to blame public schools for the "degredation of society" (which, I believe is imagined), but if you really have a problem with the younger generation, look at the people in YOUR generation, who failed to instill the essential sense of right and wrong in their children. I believe, however, that the situation is greatly overstated and that things are not nearly as awful as you would make them out to be.

Cheerfully and respectfully,
Tim Murphy

[lgb&dtuba]

Don't take it either too hard or personally, Tim.

Calling out the younger generation for immaturity and idiocy has been a favorite pastime for since Plato. Probably since the Neanderthals. In time, you'll probably make your own observations about how the younger generation is screwed up.

Just like I'm sure that at this stage of your life you see all kind of ills associated with the older generation. It's all just the human condition.

We all start the same and for sure we all end up the same.

Jim Wagner

[XtremeEuph]

....i voted for around 6..5???????? bah cant even remember now. All I know is that it is extremely high. alcohol abuse is at least 75%........and this area (town) is drug central in this region of my province. .......................I know the number isnt high but for drugs its definitely way too high. Id say at least 25-30%

[TMurphy]

That's actually precisely the point I'm getting at. All this talk about the degredation of society is way overstated. I don't take it personally at all (as I said, a bit of hyperbole on my part just to make my point). Really, I think we have people looking at the present and observing only what's negative, while looking backwards at the past through the rose-colored glasses of memory, believing they grew up in a simpler time where everything was wholesome and pure. You didn't, and it wasn't. You just weren't as aware of it as you are now (not to mention the afore-mentioned rose colored glasses).

Ah, well. The sky still above, and the ground still below. Nothing is really changing.

[LoyalTubist]

Today, for my job, I had to visit Don Quy High School, a public school here in Saigon. This is a country where most parents don't have a choice where to send their kids. For 45 minutes, it was just me and the kids. I had a little spiel I was supposed to do--it only took about 20 minutes, which left me with 25 minutes to spend with the kids.

I think the best thing I left them with was something I learned in the Army: Whenever any teachers ask, as they leave, "Are there any questions I didn't answer?" the reply is,


WHY?



...which the class shouts in unison!

[lgb&dtuba]

We all start the same and for sure we all end up the same.

No. We absolutely do not. We are being encouraged more and more (and at a faster and faster rate) to accept and embrace mob rule...and the mob isn't particularly moral, nor is it particularly clever, nor is it particularly judicial.

You entirely missed the point. I meant a blank slate and a pile of dust.

What you do in between is up to you.

[tubafatness]

I think that, at least as I see it, there is a lot of unfair bias against public schools in this thread. To say that public schools are hotbeads of drug use and stupidity is, for the most part, a complete load of crap. Sorry for the harsh language, but I have to deal with the elite private/home schooled kids and parents on a daily basis. And, from my experience, the most extremely messed-up kids are the same private/home schooled kids that I have to deal with. To say that public schools do nothing to support and enhance the children of today is just a complete lie. Yes, the public schools may sometimes be a little lax in its enforcement of drug and alcohol-use policy. But that shouldn't be the school's responsibility; if anyone's it should be the parents that enforce those rules. No, I don't think that all smart kids come from private schools and all dumb kids come from public schools. For the last 5 years, my [public] school has had one of the top 3 scores for math students in Illinois, with the number 1 student having attended just last year. The same goes for English, History and Science. I'm only ranked 16 at my school of 1200, and I still get mainly A's with a 31 ACT and membership with the National Honor Society, (not really to brag, a lot of people got in that program.) So, to say that public schools are "bad for our children" or that they are "a part of the morally degraded current-day society" is just crap. Sorry again for the language, but I have some very strong opinions on this subject.

[lgb&dtuba]

You entirely missed the point. I meant a blank slate and a pile of dust.

I got the point. I dunno about you, but I don't concern myself with that state of my earthly development and eventuality.

The main concern here is that in between the "dust" stages we are all sheep...and who shall be our shepherd(s)?

OK, I'll come at this from a different direction.

My 2 kids are both products of the public school and university systems. According to the Rush Limbaugh's of the world we did everything wrong. We let them watch tv, play video games, listen to rock 'n roll, read comics, sent them to day care (working mother), never sent them to church, didn't censor what they read or saw, and never spanked them - I'm sure you all know the litany. They certainly weren't raised the way the conservative right says is the only "right" way (pun intended). But neither did we raise them according to the liberal left's rules. They weren't allowed to just run wild and were held accountable for their own actions. They were taught to think for themselves and be very very wary of anyone telling them how they should think.

My daughter has a masters in forensics and works as a forensic scientist. She's married and is now raising her own family. My son has a B.S. in computer science and is out working now and on his own. Neither drink, smoke or do drugs. They've both made it safely to adulthood and are shaping up to be very good and responsible adults who still talk to their parents.

How could that possibly be since they went to public schools? If public schools are to blame for the "wasted younger generation", then it follows that they can also be credited with the successes, doesn't it?

Of course the truth is that there is no single reason for either the successes or failures in this life. Blaming or crediting the public school system for what you perceive to be the state of today's youth, be that state good or bad, is just looking for simple answers to complex questions.

The bad certainly gets more press than the good, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's accurate when you look at the whole picture of today's youth.

Just like at any point in human history you can identify good people and bad people. And crotchity old men only seeing the bad kids has been a cliche as long as there have been old men and young kids.

As for me, I see both types of kids.

Jim "old but not so crotchity, about kids anyway" Wagner

[passion4tuba]

To be honest, many people that I know (if not all of them) drink at least .I can't really afford to drink anyways, my gpa needs to be higher than what it is (3.7 on a 5.0 scale). I can barely spell helleburg without major focus, let alone a major exam paper. I think the only people that really don't drink are my girfriend and I. It's really a shame, one has their entire life to drink, no need to rush into as a teen..

I didn't even know there were alot of teenagers on tubenet besides myself and richland tuba and about 3 others...

Hope I'm one of the nice kids.

[lgb&dtuba]

We let them watch tv, play video games, listen to rock 'n roll, read comics, sent them to day care (working mother), never sent them to church, didn't censor what they read or saw, and never spanked them - I'm sure you all know the litany.

Certainly not all TV, video games, rock 'n' roll, comic books, day care centers are "bad", and not all churches are "good". Please don't try to lead me to believe that you just allowed your children to "run".

bloke "Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum. I smell the bullsh!t stench of d./r. p*******, so I'm OUTAH HERE. (' see ya in OTHER threads, though)"

Of course not. Guess you didn't actually read the whole post and missed:

But neither did we raise them according to the liberal left's rules. They weren't allowed to just run wild and were held accountable for their own actions. They were taught to think for themselves and be very very wary of anyone telling them how they should think.

If you're going to call b.s. then at least be sure you've actually read, and understood, the post you're doing it on.

[bububassboner]

Back to the topic,
My school and some others have done surveys and came up with this, "One in every three kids in high school has done drugs"
Kinda scary. Good thing I'm a good kid.