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Just bait in the water for some comments. I am very perplexed these days because of a position taken by the music director of the orchestra I play with and subsequent support by the board of directors. His position is that he will program no work that is not up to his standards, including children's and pops concerts. I fear there is a limited audience for a steady diet of the Romantic/Impressionist staples. It appears to me that the financially sound orchestras in the US either do these things or have large endowments or both. This begs the question.....

Do you think a suburban amatuer orchestra, no matter how proficient, can survive financially without the income from an endowment, pops/children's/Christmas/patriotic concerts, or some combination thereof?

My, God.....

What a pompous SOB....

I actually like to play some pop music and a Sousa march or two...

"Pull the stick outta yer ***, old boy....."

tbn.al wrote: Do you think a suburban amatuer orchestra, no matter how proficient, can survive financially without the income from an endowment, pops/children's/Christmas/patriotic concerts, or some combination thereof?

I don't agree with his stance in the slightest. However, I think the orchestra, if focused correctly, can run on this type of programming.


It seems to me, a whole bunch of other factors would go into (and be included) in the orchestra's success. How big of a market does the orchestra serve? Is there a large high-upper-middle class and upper-class population in the area?


If you live in a large community and have the ability to feed the "face time" of some of the orchestra goers, it could succeed. An Orchestra here, in a very nice community, has survived for 80 years---playing only Classical and Romantic standards until VERY recently. The change of format had more to do with a retirement than a lack of funding or support.


(Who has seen way to many Romantic/Impressionist performances, where people showed up---- just to "be seen")

I'm certainly no fan of stuffed shirt orchestras. That said, you said this is an amateur orchestra if I read the OP correctly.

If so, then presumably there are no paid musicians and a much smaller expense base than a professional orchestra. That being the case, it is possible for such an orchestra to survive financially, especially if the members don't want it to die. It may take dues and a little fund raising.

Putting people in the seats is an entirely different matter, of course.

It would still be a good idea for that broomstick to be surgically removed from the music director's fundament.

Classical music orchestras are not just dying out - they're committing suicide, apparently.

(Spelling edit.)

Exactly what works ARE up to "his" standards, and why did he even agree to participate in this orchestra (PAID, I assume) in the first place!?

windshieldbug wrote:Exactly what works ARE up to "his" standards

Ok, I'll bite. I do have a lot of respect for him because he is a hell of a conductor. I also don't argue with the playlist. Good stuff. I am afraid I am going to lose the opportunity to play with this group because of finances. I just wish he would stoop to do a couple of highly promoted pop things a year to pay for the good stuff. Here is this year's play list. So far we've not embarrased ourselves either.

Peter Ilyich Tchaikovsky
Symphony No. 4, Opus 36

Max Bruch
Concerto No. 2 for Violin, Op. 44 in d minor
Jun Iwasaki, violin

Gioacchino Rossini
Overture from “La Gazza Ladraâ€

tbn.al wrote:

windshieldbug wrote:Exactly what works ARE up to "his" standards

I also don't argue with the playlist. Good stuff.

Boy, you weren't kidding.

That's a heck of a playlist.


A lot of times, people come in with a lot different ideology than they can apply in real life. Maybe, if things start to crumble, he'll open up a little bit?

Your conductor does sound rather pompous. However amateur orchestras can survive just playing the more "high-brow" music.

One of the orchestras I play with, in the last seven years since I joined has never done anything like a Pop concert and it is the most financially secure amateur orchestra I know - because they have got a loyal following from the well-off residents of the area and get near capacity audiences for such as Mahler, Elgar or Vaughan-Williams.

So I would say, it all depends on your audience.

One conductor in my experience has taken the stance that there are plenty of other outlets for music as entertainment. As an orchestra of non-professional players, we are not as dependent on market forces as an organization more tied in with money issues. As long as we can rent the hall, rent the music, pay some soloists and the occasional special player (harp, etc.), our organization is not bankrupt if attendance drops because we never play the 1812 Overture. However, we do get a decent turnout for pieces like Alexander Nevsky, Bruch Viola and Clarinet cto, and 2 Mahlers in 3 years!! In that regard, the conductor's choice of music (which, incidentally, is drawn from a pool of orchestra member's suggestions) actually creates a niche for the organization in the community and helps to draw audience members. Exposing the public to great music they may never have heard is just as important as performing the standards they will pay to hear. As we cannot perform the standards as well as most recordings and as well as the professional outfit up the highway, our niche is to perform the music that is still valuable but not as readily heard. So far, it seems to be working.

Forget who hired him...

Who does he think he's working for???

Guys like this give musicians a bad name!

If he keeps this up, it'll be, "Do you want some fries with your Whopper, ma'am?"

Even Toscannini would do kiddie concerts and other publicity getting events.

The Southern Arizona Symphony, which is an amateur orchestra, has a similarly ambitious playlist. Also included often are completely new or obsure works, far from the work horses. This orchestra is doing well, having a financially-well-off base of support in the community. However, some of the principal players in the orchestra contribute quite a bit to it, and there is the sale of advertising for the programs. The new whiz-band conductor, however, stayed only two years and is now off to pastures that are greener for his particular ambitions. It will be interesting to see where the orchestra is in another couple of years.

Around here, there are amateur groups that keep afloat by having the members pay to belong, and then the concerts are free. But the orchestra above gets quite a good ticket price, although I can't see why since I personally wouldn't pay to hear them play. It sure was great to be able to play in the horn section and as tubist for them, though, on that kind of literature.

I think the more blue-hair the community, the more likely such a group is to be able to survive.

MA

When I was in grad school, I taught a Sunday school class at church with a man who was a full time fundraiser for a symphony orchestra. He said, when they hired him, they wanted someone who didn't know anything about music (wouldn't correct the script, which is required by law for telemarketing). Very few people who worked in the area of support for the orchestra knew anything about music.

You are right. The symphony board is to blame for this clown's position. I have often heard of symphony members who were fired (or disciplined) for questioning the board's choice of a conductor.

Situations like this are precisely why I want to to get into the field of orchestra management.

bloke wrote:"Don't you know that all Music Directors are paranoid?"

The fact that ALL musicians are out to get them is just coincidental...