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When you go camping at one of the places in the San Bernardino National Forest off I-15 near Cajon Pass, the rangers warn you to lock up everything. I haven't gone camping in many years but I was wondering, if I sleep in a tent, does that mean I have to lock up everything in the car and carry it to the tent when I go to bed at night? I think I've gotten too paranoid to go camping anywhere except Joshua Tree National Park.

I have such respect for "Mr. Friendly."

Yeah... it's a cryin' shame the way criminals have to ruin stuff for everyone. A couple of months ago, some friends on mine (yeah, I DO have friends) from Germany came here to drive as much as they could of old Route 66. The began in Chicago (of course) and my wife and I met them just north of St. Louis at what is called 'The Old Chain of Rocks Bridge'. I didn't even know this place existed and these travelers from Germany had to show it to me. Once there, I was quite embarresed at the signs that were posted about not being there after dark and making sure your car was locked during the day. It seems as though this old landmark fell into decay a few years back and became a site clouded by drugs, rapes, and murders. Sad.

TubaTinker wrote:It seems as though this old landmark fell into decay a few years back and became a site clouded by drugs, rapes, and murders.

Yeah, conductors are almost EVERYWHERE these days...

One thing that has been overlooked in this thread, is that while some cities are on the downturn (Memphis, Detroit) many cities are on the upturn. For the last decade city living has become fashionable again largely due to a drop in crime. Many big city "bad neighborhoods" are being demolished and replaced by extremely expensive condos and shopping. Anyone who thinks there is no crime, drugs, or other problems in small towns or rural areas has obviously not lived in them.
Another advantage to cities is that you will not have your house burned down or get beat up on a regular basis just because you are not the right race, religion, sexual preference, or whatever excuse the locals need to exact their lack of tolerance. Fortunately as white protestant straight male I did not have too many problems during my years in rural Southern areas, but I also quickly learned when and where to keep quiet so my New Yawk accent did not stir up too much trouble - I had foolishly thought the Civil War ended in the mid 19th century. It was also amazing how much different I was treated whether I was driving my 4 door Saturn or my lifted Bronco 4x4.
Within the last few years I have lived in or near Chattanooga, Knoxville, and Nashville. Admittedly, those cities all have their bad areas (where else would conductors live?) but the majority of those cities are very pleasant, and offer many ammenities that rural areas would not: ranging from healthcare to education to technology to the arts.
I grew up 6 blocks outside of Newark and in the shadow of New York City in the 70's and 80's. The state of those cities in the early 90's was nothing like their state in the 70's - the strides taken were nothing short of remarkable. Personally, I would credit Ed "How am I doing" Koch for the economic renewal of NYC and Rudy "you have no civil rights" for the dramatic drop in crime, but I do not want to make this thred any more political than it already is.

Crime may be getting worse but one can loose big by trying to help a friend.
My lead guitarist a few years back (a friend) called me to borrow my boat trailer. He forgot to put the drain plug in his boat and discovered his oversight too late. As the boat sank in 8 feet of water, he climbed the mast with all the beer he could hold. Several boats passed close by and refused to stop when they saw the black beard and all that beer. Thank God my boat was on my trailer because he borrowed another poor friend's trailer and crushed it hauling out with his sunken boat while it was still full of water.
I called him Captain Sinkalot at our gig that night only once. I may not live if I ever do it again.

tubatooter1940 wrote:Crime may be getting worse but one can loose big by trying to help a friend.
My lead guitarist a few years back (a friend) called me to borrow my boat trailer. He forgot to put the drain plug in his boat and discovered his oversight too late. As the boat sank in 8 feet of water, he climbed the mast with all the beer he could hold. Several boats passed close by and refused to stop when they saw the black beard and all that beer. Thank God my boat was on my trailer because he borrowed another poor friend's trailer and crushed it hauling out with his sunken boat while it was still full of water.
I called him Captain Sinkalot at our gig that night only once. I may not live if I ever do it again.

Interesting story, but...

Where was his trailer? Presumably, since he had just launched it without the drain plug installed, it should have been right there.

lgb&dtuba wrote:Where was his trailer? Presumably, since he had just launched it without the drain plug installed, it should have been right there.

It MIGHT have been, but perhaps he had JUST acquired it (see bloke's first post... )

MartyNeilan wrote:Another advantage to cities is that you will not have your house burned down or get beat up on a regular basis just because you are not the right race, religion, sexual preference, or whatever excuse the locals need to exact their lack of tolerance.

Are you serious? Try driving into Seattle with a "W for President" bumper sticker and see what happens to you car. One women was murdered and several other were shot in Seattle recently because they were Jewish. And, Seattle is one of the nicer cities.

Racially driven riots nearly burned Newark to the ground around the time I was born, so I understand where you are coming from. However, I still stand by my earlier statements that cities are far more tolerant of diversity than small town / rural America.
Assuming you were going to be holding a parade for an organization that represented a minority - both ethnic and sexual preference for the sake of argument. Would you rather march through a major city (pick any one) or a small town (again pick any one)?
Much of the crime done in cities against those of a different race is not racially motivated, rather it is simply crime. I would not be mugged for my race, per se, but rather because I stood out from the neighborhood as an easy target. Statistics often show same-race crime as being higher in many cases.

Doc wrote:Let's just spell it out, folks:

The majority is less racially biased in the city, yet more biased in the country. The minority is less biased in the country, yet more biased in the city.

Did I cover it alright?

Maybe we should add the contrasts between South and North, East Coast and West Coast. Lord knows everyone in the South is a hater. Just ask anyone from the North. Everyone can have their stereotypes as long as they are against Southern rural whites, right??? And don't say anything about those know-it-all-better-than-you pricks from the North - they'll point out all your Southern faults.

Just what a Southern trailer-living poor-white-trash-type would say...

Doc wrote:The majority is less racially biased in the city, yet more biased in the country. The minority is less biased in the country, yet more biased in the city.

Well put

I have a great deal of respect for the people who post here on tubenet. This is one of the few places on the web I've seen where the discourse is (nearly) always civil, and when things do get out of hand, there's always someone to post some food photo or make a wisecrack to lighten things up.

The problem, though, is that with this type of discussion, everyone seems to treat their experience with the city they are most familiar with as universal. Memphis, based on what information I get from Joe, seems to be declining. Can't say I blame him for getting out. New York, on the other hand, has transformed into a safer, nicer, friendlier city than it was 20 years ago. I'm sure this is happening all over the country...some cities or improving, others are dying, and with no recognizable geographic pattern. I've not had the opportunity to do much traveling in my life, so I can't confirm this with firsthand experience, but I do believe I am right.

I agree with Doc's final comment on human nature. There are jerks, racists, bigots, and conductors everywhere. Living in the north, the south, the city, the country, etc. won't change that (unless of course, YOU are the jerk, racist, bigot, or conductor....)

bloke wrote: Methinks ye may have a cartoon concept of "small-town", "rural", and (perhaps, though not specifically stated...??) "the south"...about equivalent to old fantasy cowboy movies that Europeans view about "America".

I lived in one of THE most rural counties in Virginia for several years in the early-mid 90's while commuting 1-2 hours to work in Richmond or Fredericksburg.
I also later spent two years in Valdosta, GA (commuting to Cairo, Thomasville, and Bainbridge, GA). You cannot go further south on the east coast without going "north" to all the "Yankees" in Florida (their saying, not mine.)
Don't get me wrong, I would go back to rural Virginia in a second if the right job presented itself within reasonable commuting distance. Unfortunately, I have also seen many of those areas "spoiled" by developers in the 15 years since I first moved there when the entire county only had one traffic light.

All I am saying is that, taking Virginia for an example, I saw many biracial and openly gay couples in Richmond, while 70 miles out in the country such things either did not exist or were kept secret. And there was no shortage of crime in the country whatsoever, including a renowned "drug corner" just a couple of miles from where I lived.

I respect that others will disagree with me and I promise not to post further in this thread, but please don't dismiss my credentials until you look at where I have actually lived post NYC.

Interesting stuff on those lists, Rob...I seriously wonder what accounts for that disparity???

I must say, two things about that list shocked me....first, that Wildwood, NJ, was 10th on the list. This surprised me, until I saw the disclaimer about resort communities, which is exactly what Wildwood is during the summer. The other was that Camden, NJ, was 48th on the list. I expected it to be much, much higher, possibly number 1. Camden is a NASTY place.

The fact is, Bloke, you have a found a place that makes you happy. You seem to enjoy living there, and THAT is the only thing that truly matters. I hope someday I'll be able to have my ideal living situation--and it will probably be quite different from yours. But that's fine, because as long as I'm happy where I'm at, it doesn't matter what others think of it.