So, I am shopping for a new vehicle...

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:16 pm

Going to retire my 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee pretty soon.

Overall, been a great vehicle. There are a few things I do not like about it:

1. 16-18 MPG tops (4.7 V8)
2. Its a loud ride (lots of wind/road noise)
3. Rear passenger leg room is awful

Now, the new Jeeps may be much better, who knows, but my standards have changed. Specifically, I want something that has:

1. Better MPG (average 25 or better)
2. Quieter ride
3. Similar rear cargo capacity (with seats down, approx 70 cubic feet)
4. Power/towing capacity is not an issue.

I figure you tuba guys would own EXACTLY this type of vehicle, so I am looking for some suggestions! THANKS!

Tubaryan12 · Post by **Tubaryan12** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:35 pm

Buy the last available Ford Focus Wagon. Fits all your needs with 73.7 cu.ft of storage and gets over 26 mpg city / 34 mpg highway

Ford Focus Wagon Stats

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:48 pm

Are these wagons discontinued now? I only see the sedans on the current Ford website...

And thanks!

Normal · Post by **Normal** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:06 pm

If I were looking for a new vehicle, capable of hauling tubas and still get good mileage, I would be looking a Toyota Highlander Hybrid. Pricey, but good repair record, solid customer service. The price can be slightly offset by tax credits.

JCalkin · Post by **JCalkin** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:26 pm

Dean wrote:Are these wagons discontinued now? I only see the sedans on the current Ford website...

And thanks!

Yes. For the 2008 model year, Ford discontinued the 3-door hatch, 5-door hatch and wagon in favor of a sedan- and coupe-only lineup.

It's a shame, as I have the 3-door (2005) and I think it's a great little car that swallows all the tuba gear I need it to.

Since they made the wagon through the 2007 year, you may find a new one on a Ford lot somewhere if you are willing to search.

oldbandnerd · Post by **oldbandnerd** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:13 am

Dodge Caravan ,
Yeah, I know ...it's a mommy-mobile ,BUT ...........

1) Great MPG
2) Really comfortable
3) Used ones that are loaded with bells and whistles can be
gotten for a good price
4) Enough room to haul 4 tubas or 8 euphoniums and then
some
5) Lots of room no matterwhere you sit .

My wife and I are on our 4th one . She has driven one every since we've had kids. That's 17 years of driving Caravans with no major problems ever . Each time we have decide to get rid of the current one we look around at what else is available and always come back to the Caravan . It's just a good deal .

Tubaryan12 · Post by **Tubaryan12** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:26 am

oldbandnerd wrote:Dodge Caravan ,
Yeah, I know ...it's a mommy-mobile ,BUT ...........

1) Great MPG
2) Really comfortable
3) Used ones that are loaded with bells and whistles can be
gotten for a good price
4) Enough room to haul 4 tubas or 8 euphoniums and then
some
5) Lots of room no matterwhere you sit .

My wife and I are on our 4th one . She has driven one every since we've had kids. That's 17 years of driving Caravans with no major problems ever . Each time we have decide to get rid of the current one we look around at what else is available and always come back to the Caravan . It's just a good deal .

You are the luckiest guy I know. Everyone that I know that has ever owned a Dodge Caravan has had to replace the transmission at least once.

Everything else you say about them is true. I almost bought one. The dealer let me take it home for the weekend. During the 1st day, the van stopped shifting. It would get no further than second gear no matter how fast you drove it. We took it back. The salesman still wanted us to buy it. In fact, he suggested that we buy the extended warranty as well, drive it for 30 days like it was, then after the 30 days, let the extended warranty fix the transmission.

I have never set foot on that lot again.

oldbandnerd · Post by **oldbandnerd** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:52 am

This is true Ryan . Caravan's are know for thier transmission problems. I just make sure to change the transmission fluid and filter every 30k miles . That seems to help .
Now that I think about it the first one we owned did have to have it's transmission rebuilt . I had forgotten about that because it fell apart at 90k miles and was covered under the extended warranty we had boughtso I did not have to pay for it .
We did not have any transmission problems with the others . We just drove the wheels off of each one of them!

Carroll · Post by **Carroll** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:38 am

Tubaryan12 wrote:
oldbandnerd wrote:Dodge Caravan ,
Yeah, I know ...it's a mommy-mobile ,BUT ...........

1) Great MPG
2) Really comfortable
3) Used ones that are loaded with bells and whistles can be
gotten for a good price
4) Enough room to haul 4 tubas or 8 euphoniums and then
some
5) Lots of room no matterwhere you sit .

My wife and I are on our 4th one . She has driven one every since we've had kids. That's 17 years of driving Caravans with no major problems ever . Each time we have decide to get rid of the current one we look around at what else is available and always come back to the Caravan . It's just a good deal .
You are the luckiest guy I know. veryone that I know that has ever owned a Dodge Caravan has had to replace the transmission at least once.

Count me in that group, too. We are on our fourth Caravan and my wife's new one should be delivered next week. We have put 150+K on all of them and then sold (given) them to our moms/siblings and they have so far racked up another 100K each. Elecctric window motors... air conditioner compressors.. fuel filler necks... but no transmissions.

By the way, we do the same with my Dakota quad cabs that I use to drag my 28' band trailer. Three of them went to dads and brothers, each with 150+K and all are still hauling at 225K or so.

Thomas Maurice Booth · Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:12 am

I have a 2007 Mazda CX-7 that I absolutely love. It feels like a sports car (sport suspension, turbo-charged, either manual or automatic at any given time) to drive (not bulky like my previous Trailblazer). If you fold down the rear seats you should have no trouble loading four tubas and some gear into the rear storage. I average about 26 mpg in the city and have had no problems whatsoever with anything mechanical. I highly recommend at least checking one out for a test drive. Also, if that isn't large enough for your needs you can check out the new Mazda CX-9 with three rows of seating allowing for extra storage.

TMB

Normal · Post by **Normal** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:04 pm

bloke wrote:
Shopping for a vehicle by how much I could "write off" would immediately set off an alarm in my brain...and I sure don't need a $25,000 car that will be worth less than $4000 when its $4000 battery poops out!

bloke "who views vehicles as expenses - NEVER as investments"

Not to hijack this thread, but I see the "investment" in a hybrid as an investment in the future of the world. If I can help advance an interim technology that could lead to a reduction in our reliance on fossil fuels then it is worth it to me.

As to the tax credit, it was and still is a move to provide incentive that will get more of these vehicles on the road. This incentive seems to be working which is leading to the phase out of the credit and the creation of cheaper, longer lasting batteries for these vehicles. There is enough interest in this technology that companies are investing in research in new technologies.

Also, so far the depreciation of the hybrids is not happening as fast as they are for other cars that provide fuel economy. Your Escort for example depreciated at least $10,000 by the time you bought it, after six or seven years on the road. A Toyota Hybrid is holding up better than that even with the potential battery issue.

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:25 pm

Thanks for the advice guys!

I'll take a look at all the options.

I'm not in the market for a hybrid. Don't want one. I have my reasons--but thats another discussion.

geomiklas · Post by **geomiklas** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:35 pm

My favorite small vehicle that would qualify as a tuba hauler was my 1993 Plymouth Voyager 4-cylinder 5-speed manual transmission. 27 MPG always on the highway, 24 MPG mixed driving. Lots of leg room and head room, and lots of room for tubas! The roof rack was always available for curb-side treasure hunts

But a deer was the predator one night, and my 93 Voyager was the victim. If you do an autotrader.com search, you may still find a 5-speed caravan/voyager. They were built 1984 - 1990, 1992-94. They were obsoleted because in the last three years of production, only 170 were built/delivered nationwide. Mine had over 200k miles when it met the deer, original engine and transmission, one clutch and one A/C evaporator replaced --no other major repair.

I'm presently driving a 1995 VW Jetta 4-cyl 5-sp. Tuba fits in the trunk, electric bass and amp fit in the back seat. 37 MPG hwy, 31 mixed. Of course when the family goes to a gig with me, I have to drive my 2001 Ford E-350 Superduty Chateau 7-pass, 5.4L, trailer toter.

ZNC Dandy · Post by **ZNC Dandy** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:54 am

bloke wrote:Does anyone currently make a wagon with a c. 2.0 engine and a manual tranny?

Subaru Impreza. Its also AWD. Pretty much a tank. Bulletproof reliability.

KevinMadden · Post by **KevinMadden** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:30 pm

Second for Subaru, I have a '98 Legacy wagon.
24mpg /mixed
30+mpg / highway
plenty of room (moved in and out of college several times w/o second car for stuff)
AWD
no frills, but its a solid car that'll go 200k miles easy.

Tubainsauga · Post by **Tubainsauga** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:58 pm

KevinMadden wrote:Second for Subaru, I have a '98 Legacy wagon.
24mpg /mixed
30+mpg / highway
plenty of room (moved in and out of college several times w/o second car for stuff)
AWD
no frills, but its a solid car that'll go 200k miles easy.

I have the exact same car, and it is a great car for tubists. I can even put my WJ case in the back without folding down the seats. It's taken beating too and it still drives pretty well without any issues.

lgb&dtuba · Post by **lgb&dtuba** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:32 pm

Tubainsauga wrote:
Some relatives from out in the Missouri Ozarks showed up here in Ohio with a Honda Element recently, and it seems like it might be a good solution, (along with the very similar Dodge Caliber/Jeep Compass).

It may be practical, but it sure is butt ugly. Though not as ugly as the Toyota Scion.

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:06 pm

lgb&dtuba wrote: Some relatives from out in the Missouri Ozarks showed up here in Ohio with a Honda Element recently, ...

It may be practical, but it sure is butt ugly. Though not as ugly as the Toyota Scion.

I nearly bought a 1st generation Scion XB until I found out my wife was pregnant with our third child. The original XB was very economical (moreso than many hybrids) and had all the space you could want for instruments and equipment with the rear seats folded down. Plus, it did have a certain style.
The new ones get a little more room and some more power, but completely lose the economy of the first gen along with all of its cool points.

MaryAnn · Post by **MaryAnn** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:57 pm

Yeah, the XB was well on its way to being a cult-mobile. Friends of mine have one and have driven it literally all over the country. Only thing they coudln't get in it was the harp. (yes, harp. not harmonica.) So they bought a smaller harp.

I like my Forester but it is really more than I need.

And I explained recently to someone that a major reason for a purely electric car (as opposed to a hybrid, which is the worst of both worlds) is that power plants only need one robust installation of pollution control equipment, while every single combustion engine vehicle has to have its own. Them things take energy to manufacture, too.

If we still want to burn stuff in our engines, I vote for hydrogen, as long as we can get some kind of solar technology going to extract it from all that extra seawater we're going to have after the Greenland ice sheet melts and Bloke's condos are full of yuppies.

MA

SplatterTone · Post by **SplatterTone** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:05 pm

Since nobody has mentioned it yet:
Southpark, season 10, episode 2, called "Smug Alert!" is about hybrid cars and the people who drive them. If you have time to kill
http://southpark4602.x10hosting.com/
http://southpark4602.x10hosting.com/episodes/index.html