TubeNet

Finale- Industry standard. Large learning curve

Sibelius- Pretty much accepted by the industry. Quirky(IMO) learning curve still large.

Encore- Not industry standard. Blind, mildly retarded 3rd grader easy to use (read: Chuckproof).

Finale Notepad- free

Notion- never heard of it. That says absolutely nothing about the product.


Finale is all the rage in Las Vegas schools. Sibelius is what the band guys use where I work. I use Encore because I know it and can do stuff stooooooooooooopid fast with it. Software is like a spouse, you have what you can stand and who can stand you, and always look over the others, sometimes longingly, but in the end you go with what works or you.

Chuck"who as lusted in his heart"Jackson

Our district has moved towards a site license for Sibelius. It is only licensed for staff machines (about 20 people), so our students don't really have access to it. If that is a consideration, I would do more research.

From a staff standpoint, I have really enjoyed Sibelius. I do agree that it tends to have a higher learning curve than Finale, especially if Finale is what you are used to like I was. I have had found a few odd things trying to switch between the two.

Also, we have had good support from Sibelius and have had a few consultants (not related to corporate) come and do a few trainings. Their site can be beneficial if you know what you are looking for, and the built in worksheets in Sibelius are pretty much ready to go. Once you get the hang of the software, you can manipulate the worksheets specifically to your needs.

Chuck Jackson wrote:.....Software is like a spouse, you have what you can stand and who can stand you, and always look over the others, sometimes longingly, but in the end you go with what works or you.

That's brilliant! Wish I had said it.

I am a FINALE adept.
I never tried NOTION.

I went to their website and and from reading what they say about it, I find it limitative. Of corse I may be wrong.

The logic they use to the shortcut keys is based on the enitials. Q for quarter note, H for Half note, etc. This is compleately unergonomic and serves (badly) only who are familiar with English language, wich, as you see, is not very much my case...

Finale has many strange behaviours, but after you understand the logic in it, you can do almost anything.

Just my opinion.

seconding Noteworthy!

I sit around 8-12 hours everyday with either Finale or Sibelius, but have chosen Finale because that is what I started with originally. Both are fine and are accepted file formats in the music publishing, performing, etc. industry.

As mentioned above, there are lots of other programs but Finale and Sibelius appear to be the two that have survived and probably will survive into the future. Elephant's statements are mine almost exactly, but I do use Finale 95% of time and am on a MAC. It is buggy and has many issues, but you get used to them and work around them. I do complain to MakeMusic and they could care less. Sibelius has its limitations, but is MUCH more receptive to comments and has improved their product greatly in recent years.

You could call both companies and ask them to come do demos at the school. I am guessing Sibelius would be more than willing to come, MakeMusic will be a much tougher sell to get them to your school.

I would download a bunch of demos and see what might work best for what you need a notation program to do for you. Sibelius works better for some people in certain aspects than Finale and vice versa.

Notion: This is a decent program, but it is not acceptable for music publishing. There are too many issues that prevent me from creating a quality printed output. Their sounds are quite nice!

Encore: I would no longer invest in Encore. It has changed ownership many times in recent years and I cannot see it being an option in the future for most people (flame away!)

Something to consider: If your students are really interested in composing and arranging music, start with Finale or Sibelius. Every project I have been hired to do in the past 8 years has been in either program. This includes Broadway, opera productions, jazz charts for various artists, Military Band projects, lots of other publishers, etc. If they can start to learn a program early, it might give them a leg up if they decide to enter the music field as a career.

Encore: I would no longer invest in Encore. It has changed ownership many times in recent years and I cannot see it being an option in the future for most people (flame away!)

Agreed. I bought the newest version because I have over a 1000 files of things I have written for school and various groups that need something quick. It is a quick and easy program to learn and is entirely "Chuck-Proof". I do wish I had the time to learn Finale. I can appreciate all of you that use Sibelius and Finale. Maybe if someone gave me a free copy and I had a spare week to learn it, I would, but for now I'll use Encore to do the grunt work I need it for as long as I have the hardware to run it. I figure that will be until they stop supporting XP.

To all of you out there, go with either of the two big programs. They will always be around and the updates are VERY reasonable.

Chuck

Chuck: If you do invest in either Finale or Sibelius, feel free to email me questions. I can say that both are MUCH easier to use compared previous versions. Yes even Finale. I know it is hard to believe.

I used to be able to convert Encore files to Finale, but even though the option is there in Finale it has not worked for several versions.

Chuck: If you do invest in either Finale or Sibelius, feel free to email me questions. I can say that both are MUCH easier to use compared previous versions. Yes even Finale. I know it is hard to believe.

Thanks Bryan. Actually, someone's ears must have been burning in the valley because I was just offered a free copy of the new Finale(2007?) with two installations. Every teacher in the CCSD gets a free copy along with Smart Music (I don't care for that so much).I have some time over my spring break so I can dive in then.

I remember that on the older versions you could import Encore files (as some extension I don't remember) and Finale would read it, but just the notes, none of the diacritical markings.

Chuck"straying"Jackson

Chuck Jackson wrote:

I remember that on the older versions you could import Encore files (as some extension I don't remember) and Finale would read it, but just the notes, none of the diacritical markings.

The option is still there, but I have not been able to get it to work for a few years. I am not sure if it is an Encore or Finale issue. I have used Finale so much at this point it is probably quicker for me to just plunk the notes in from a hard copy.

2007 is a good version, but 2008 does have a couple of features that you might want to look in to if you you decide to switch on a permanent basis. Ask away if you have questions. I am not an expert on all of the features of the program, but I am fairly certain if you have any questions about piano, chamber or large ensemble music I can help you out.

Wait a minute, nothing better to do over spring break??

Wait a minute, nothing better to do over spring break??

Wife will be in another major metro area playing for___________ over that time, so I will hanging here. Good time to get stuff done. I will be in touch as I get further into the program. The first thing I noticed that I REALLY like are the ensemble templates!!!! I guess I got the program for free since it's 2007. I'll be hollering here soon.

Chuck

Chuck Jackson wrote:I guess I got the program (Finale) for free since it's 2007. <snip>

Chuck

What!? You got it free? How? Or... is this a secret?

I'm still using Finale-2001 and need to upgrade.

What!? You got it free? How? Or... is this a secret?

Clark County School District Music Teachers (Las Vegas and environs) were afforded the opportunity to BUY the software at a hugely discounted rate. A friend had a copy he bought and wasn't using (he is a Sibelius user) so he passed it on to me. Once registered, I can purchase the updates for the same discount. Everyone who teaches music in the CCSD was given SmartMusic FREE a couple of years ago and we have just now , meaning this year, have been allowing the accompaniments to be used at Solo and Ensemble(to varying degrees of success if last weekend was an indication at the Middle School Festival).

Chuck

Thanks Chuck,

I was afraid it was something like that.

I've seen the *PrintMusic* version of Finale (2007) for around $40. I might try that if I really feel the need to update.

No one has mentioned Myriad's Harmony Assistant or Melody Assistant. http://www.myriad-online.com/en/index.htm

possible advantages:

o) low price for base product
o) pay once; free lifetime updates
o) allowed to install on multiple machines
o) OMR to music (option)
o) PDF to music (option)
o) download free demo
o) current products available since 1994

possible disadvantages:

o) unique user interface; takes time to learn everything
o) never give out free licenses
o) no marketing budget
o) some options cost more than base product

StanOsborne wrote:No one has mentioned Myriad's Harmony Assistant or Melody Assistant. http://www.myriad-online.com/en/index.htm

MAJOR PITAs:

• aligns note modifiers (staccato, accent, tenuto, tie, mordant, gruppetto, etc) with note stem rather than note head.

• breaks ALL beams in a document whenever a beamed note position is moved manually.

• overrides manual adjustments made to note spacing, slur and tie orientation, lyric alignment, etc.

• tied note (eighth, sixteenth, etc.) cannot be beamed to rest of group.

It took me four or five years of using Finale before I could feel comfortable with it, but I felt just as comfortable with Sibelius after only one year's use and nowadays use it most of the time.

Notion's demo seemed to have a few neat features, and the sounds were impressive, but the appearance of the engraving seemed not yet up to F and S's standards. Probably it will improve in the next generation.

See if you can get demo versions or find friends with a copy so you can try each version out before making a decision.

the elephant wrote:I cannot wait to find an engraving application that is not trying so hard to be a mediocre do-everything program instead of an excellent engraving environment.

Have you looked at Lilypond?

Has its own idiosyncratic note entry scheme and file format, but is much better than anything else for engraving.

Rick F wrote:Thanks Chuck,

I was afraid it was something like that.

I've seen the *PrintMusic* version of Finale (2007) for around $40. I might try that if I really feel the need to update.

Rick, if you're using this for personal stuff take a look at Allegro. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles that Finale has but costs quite a bit less. The Finale site has some comparison tables so that you can see what features are common to both and what things aren't there until you step up to Finale.

I say personal use just because it probably cannot share files back and forth with Finale if you are collaborating.

It does have the same learning curve though.

Greg wrote:I don't need to deal with hassles. I'm surrounded by hassles.

Use the Schwartz, Greg. Use the Schwartz.