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Unfortunately, my minivan just died so I am currently shopping for used cars. The van was nice for carting around tubas, but I am going to replace it with a wagon (still have room, but better mileage, and not a minivan). I am looking at several used cars locally, but does anyone have experience with maintence on saabs or audis. I realize that they can both be pretty pricey to maintain and fix, but does anyone know how or have any experience on how they compare for maintenance prices? I have been looking at some other things like a ford taurus wagon as well, however from my research it seems as if an audi or saab will live a substantially longer life.

If you can find a local garage machanic who specializes in the german or swedish cars you might make out OK. There is a local european mechanic used car dealer here that I have worked with when i had my VW cabriolet and he treated me pretty well. But if you have to deal with a dealer forget it. The two VW I had were great fun to drive and the engines ran great for a long time but the little stuff kept breaking: things like the seat releases, the HVAC controls, the dash lights, the radio, door handles, nuisance stuff like that.

You also have to realize that parts like brakes, etc. for audis and saabs are going to cost much more than parts for a Ford. Also anyone can work on and get parts for the Ford, Hell thay have made millions of them. They are also dirt cheap. I have owned two Tauruses over the years and have been very pleased with them. Also I like the looks of the taurus wagon. i figure if I have to drive a wagon it may as well look cool.

My next ride is going to be the Scion XB - 30 plus mpg and it is made by Toyota. Mazda also make the mazda5 that looks interesting, but they are still a little too new to get one under $10K. that is my limit for purchasing a vehicle. I refuse to spend more than that on a car. I used to buy new cars and then I was figuring out how much I was losing in depreciation. i have lost more than 10k on cars, so I figure if I only spend that much I can't lose that much. Cars suck......

ken k

As an auto parts salesman, I can lend you some perspective...

Maintenance costs will be only slightly higher for the more "exotic" imports. Engine Oil is engine oil, but the filter prices (oil and air) will be about 50% more than the corresponding filters for domestic vehicles. Transmission fluid can be expensive for these imports, but unless you have a problem (leak) develop this is usually a "lifetime fluid" which doesn't need regular refilling.

If you get something with close to 100,000 miles, be prepared to shell out another $100 - $200 for oxygen sensors - you will likely have to replace at least the front one(s) (forward of the catalytic convertor(s)) as the chemical reactions simply wear them out near 100,000 miles (VERY few exceptions!). A four-cylinder engine usually only has one front 02 sensor, a V6 or V8 vehicle will have two front ones. These are much more expensive for imports - usually around $100 each, sometimes as much as $200 each.

Other fluids such as power steering fluid, brake fluid, windshield washer fluid, etc. are mostly the same as other vehicles and hence no more expensive. Brake pads and rotors are a bit more, but not too much.

You don't need a "specialized import mechanic" for any of the above items, but you probably will for any more serious issues. This is where the costs of owning an exotic import can get ridiculous. If you have any kind of ECM (computer) problems, engine overheating, major tranny issues, or the like, be prepared to shell out the big $$$ for parts and labor.

Drive the cars. Like tubas, if you can feel a difference, go for what makes a difference, and if you can't, go cheap, 'cause it won't make any difference if you spend more.

Mike "Who loved and owned Saab turbos, but still drove his 911 into a very solid mountain" Keller

I had an Audi a while back - it was as good as most other cars - but when it came to getting parts I got a lot of 'that's a dealer part' from the parts stores and it was always things you would think were 'normal' (light bulbs, shocks, brake pads). Our only dealer option within a 250 mile radius was insanely expensive (like list + 30%).

However, that was before we had easy access to the internet - if an Audi were an insanely good deal, I'd consider it now. We aren't restricted to a single dealer in our city - It's much easier to get those 'dealer parts' at a discount from out of town.

I've also learned from my VW fanatic brother and from my wife's beetle that the VW family (VW, Porsche, Audi) has it's 'own way' and if you live the 'VW way' you are fine. That means you STRICTLY follow the maintenance schedules, fluid recommendations (synthetics and only VW branded anti-freeze) and only use VW parts (available at a reasonable cost online). You can get access to the factory maintenance manuals, factory instructional DVDs and software at www.bentlypublishers.com.

As for the Saab... It may be the same but unless you have a good mechanic in town - don't do it.

Good Luck and take a look at a Toyota RAV4 or used Sienna

Ricko

Mechanically, if you keep a Saab or Audi maintained, it would be worth the extra money to keep it that way. But, should you need any body work, then it can get real pricey. I work with body shops, from single man shops to dealerships, and foreign auto body parts are more expensive than domestic as a rule; even aftermarket and OEM, when you can get them of any quality. Good luck with your vehicle search.

My partner John switched from a cargo van to a Jeep Cherokee with about 40,000 on it. He is on the road a lot with big loads. We used it to pull a 4' by 8' trailer and three of us from the Gulf Coast to Michigan and back with good results.
He is happy with it after four years and 100,000 more miles and we find U.S.A. built car parts are significantly cheaper.

I second Bloke, in general (13.) When I buy a car, new or used, I go entirely on the repair record and the gas mileage it gets. Haven't gone wrong yet. I wouldn't touch a VW or a Saab with a 10 foot pole.

Repair record is available at your library via Consumer Reports.

MA

tubatooter1940 wrote: Jeep Cherokee

We have one of these 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee w/ V6, 2WD. We have >200K miles and she still pulls strong with lots of room for tubas, black labs, sailing gear, kids....etc. That V6 is one of the most robust power plants ever....easy parts and easy accessability.


I don't buy new cars! ...and I do regular maintenance.

this is what i use for a tuba hauler. not real pretty. would lose to an ant in a drag race but i can fix anything on it. this one is not mine but is similar.

Schlepporello wrote: Hey Rick!
Do you have any experience with the RAV4? We're strongly considering this vehicle as a replacement for our Geo Prizm after we get my Dodge paid off.

Schlep... Not specifically with the RAV4 - I've had a Corolla, a Camry and a 4cyl Xtra cab pickup. All I unloaded because we got tired of looking at them. The pickup had over 120k on it and ran like a top - it had the 22RE pushrod engine in it that was sooo easy to work on. Everything about that truck was easy - except for carrying two kids and all their school stuff - I wish I had kept it. It was in the shop three times in 8 years. Now I'm in a Nissan Pathfinder that runs great but craves gas more than I crave pizza.

I mentioned the RAV4 because of the wagon-likeness and the folks I know who own them have had them for a very long time. They say they wear like that truck I owned. I've got a kid approaching 16 and I'm thinking that a well used RAV4 would be a better option than handing down a top heavy pathfinder.

A few of our friends that had the Sienna's, even the first gen ones - ran them well over 300k (well, we'll forget the VP at work that towed them behind his RV and never seemed to hook them in right - the RV would exit and the van would keep going)

The Saab is going to be a much safer bet than the Audi. Tons of electrical problems with the Audi. The pre-GM Saab's are even better. Check out the 9000 Aero. Most reliable car they have ever made and an absolute blast to drive. I would look at a Volvo first though. More reliable all around, and not as expensive to maintain. My younger brother is a Certified Porsche Technician, and is also certified on Audi's. He said he would never own an Audi unless it was the older 20valve Turbo engine.Those things would run without oil in them. The electrican that designed the newer Audi's however, was an idiot. Its probably the same genius that came up with the BMW iDrive system. If you know what a piece of crap that is you'll know what i'm talking about. Takes 20 damn minutes to turn the freakin' car on.

bloke wrote:

ZNC Dandy wrote:The Saab is going to be a much safer bet than the Audi. Tons of electrical problems with the Audi. The pre-GM Saab's are even better. Check out the 9000 Aero. Most reliable car they have ever made and an absolute blast to drive. I would look at a Volvo first though. More reliable all around, and not as expensive to maintain. My younger brother is a Certified Porsche Technician, and is also certified on Audi's. He said he would never own an Audi unless it was the older 20valve Turbo engine.Those things would run without oil in them. The electrican that designed the newer Audi's however, was an idiot. Its probably the same genius that came up with the BMW iDrive system. If you know what a piece of crap that is you'll know what i'm talking about. Takes 20 damn minutes to turn the freakin' car on.

These all seem like the perfect sorts of cars to transport one of those Swiss tubas with plastic rotors.

Very true, I only mentioned them because the OP mentioned them. Althought I would recommend an older Volvo 240 station wagon to absolutely anyone. Most reliable car I have ever owned. Also an absolute tank. Will protect the Swiss teflon rotor tubas with ease!

I got a Saab wagon today at a Repo auction! A 2001 at a good price (cheaper than my tuba haha)....lots of tuba room as well.

Thanks for the heads up! Early this week I am going to get it registered and then take it to the local saab dealership to give it a lookover to see if anything needs to be done. The auction company actually has a warranty too that if there are any problems they will pay for repair or will take the car back and refund the customer completely....so far I have been pretty lucky with this deal (we'll find out for sure after it comes back from the mechanic at the dealership)

mTaUrBkA wrote:The auction company actually has a warranty too that if there are any problems they will pay for repair or will take the car back and refund the customer completely

I truly hope you bought a vehicle with no major problems and don't have to count on the warranty to bail you out.

I also hope you're not naive enough to believe that "any problem" you have with the car will entitle you to a full refund. Who decides what is a "problem" and what isn't? What kind of time-frame are you allowed for "problems" to surface?

I've been involved in many, many auctions such as this and have never heard of such a "warranty" being offered, particularly on a seven year old vehicle.

Oh, and unless you know the local Saab dealership mechanic personally and trust said person explicitly, be aware that they have a vested interest in you keeping the vehicle, ESPECIALLY if it has "problems" (who do you think will get the $$$ to repair the problems?).

The dealership is extrememly respectable. My family has bought several vehicles and have had work done there on various cars over the past 30 years. The vehicle also passed inspection about 2 months ago when it was repossessed by the bank. The period that the company gives us for having a mechanic look at it is 30 days....even if there are a few minor problems we got a good enough deal to spend some money on repairs. I think we will probably replace the timing belt just to be safe, because to repair that after it breaks is much more costly usually.

How many miles are on the vehicle? If it's over 100,000 you should definitely have the timing belt replaced...it's regular maintenance at that mileage interval.

I'm assuming you have the 2.3 liter 4-cylinder engine (most Saab 9-5 wagons do), but both that engine and the 3.0 liter V6 are interference engines. This means that if the timing belt breaks while the engine is operating, Mr. piston meets Mr. valve and violent engine damage results. Mutliple bent valves are inevitable, and you are correct that this is much more costly than a timing belt replacement.

I'm glad you and your family has a good relationship with the local Saab dealership, but now I'm a little confused why you would need the TNFJ opinion on whether or not to buy one.

It does sound like you have the right idea, though, having a trusted mechanic look at the vehicle. Your post about the warranty made it sound like you thought you could get a full refund for the vehicle for any problem.

mTaUrBkA wrote:The auction company actually has a warranty too that if there are any problems (emphasis mine) they will pay for repair or will take the car back and refund the customer completely

They will not pay for repairs...if the problem is bad enough (faulty transmission, blown engine, etc.), they will refund your money and have the car fixed to be sold again later. You will pay for the timing belt replacement, as well as any other regular maintenance items or minor problems you find. If you are very lucky, the previous owner kept good maintenance records in the vehicle's owner manual (assuming it's still there).

Repo auctions for vehicles are almost always "as-is" in my area...I'm amazed you got the limited agreement from the auctioneer that you did.

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:I'm glad you and your family has a good relationship with the local Saab dealership, but now I'm a little confused why you would need the TNFJ opinion on whether or not to buy one.

mTaUrBkA wrote:My family has bought several vehicles and have had work done there on various cars over the past 30 years.

"Several vehicles" and "various cars" does not necessarily mean "several/various Saabs."

In this area (and in Toronto, where I lived previously), a lot of car dealerships sell several, unrelated makes (e.g. Michael Jordan Lincoln Mercury Nissan").

sungfw wrote:"Several vehicles" and "various cars" does not necessarily mean "several/various Saabs."

In this area (and in Toronto, where I lived previously), a lot of car dealerships sell several, unrelated makes (e.g. Michael Jordan Lincoln Mercury Nissan").

It is possible the OP is talking about a dealership that sells/services Saabs and a variety of other makes, but those other makes are probably other "upscale imports." Rarely do you see a Ford/Lincoln/Audi dealer, or Chevy/GMC/Saab, etc. Dealerships have to pay big bucks to get the added import make for their business, and it's often a big hassle for them, unless they can move a large number of those imports. Honda, Nissan, and Toyota, yes...no so much for Audi, Saab, Porsche, et. al.

That being said...

mTaUrBkA wrote:I am looking at several used cars locally, but does anyone have experience with maintence on saabs or audis. I realize that they can both be pretty pricey to maintain and fix, but does anyone know how or have any experience on how they compare for maintenance prices? I have been looking at some other things like a ford taurus wagon as well, however from my research it seems as if an audi or saab will live a substantially longer life.

was the original question. The appropriate response, with the information we NOW have, would be...

Ask the folks at the local dealership which sells Saabs (and also, possibly, Audis?) about them. I'm sure they have a great deal of experience regarding how those vehicles compare for maintenance prices.

Don't you agree that the above advice is much more helpful (and practical) than "I had a Saab once...great car...go for it!"?

Todd "who thinks the Taurus wagon would have been a much better choice, ESPECIALLY for a longer life" S. Malicoate