TubeNet

well, ok, a retirement living, an adjunct money source. Not a "living living." Very , very few can do that...fewer even than those who make a living playing the tuba full time. And based on what I've seen, your ability to market yourself is more important than your ability to write "music." There is some really fine music out there written by people who are clueless as to marketing, that will likely never be heard by anyone other than the close friends of the composer.

My BF was telling me the other night that I should get into the composing business. I sez, I'm not good enough, based on lack of sales of what I have out there. He sez, yes you ARE good enough; you have to write for the market that is open, e.g., the middle school / high school band market. I sez....yah mebbe I could learn some formula writing (you all know what composers I'm referring to) and make attempts to sell to that market, but I doubt my self-promotion skills are up to the task.

Publishers, from my experience, are not marketers either. They are copy-right holders and engravers (maybe) but in general, not marketers.

So the Q is: anybody out there making more than, say, $500 a month on composing? Don't all yell at once, BTW.

MA

Composing, no...a $100 commission sonata here and there, lots of "freebies" for the local university groups.

Arranging, yes...high school marching bands. I make around $5000 a year, mostly in a lump around this time of year. The best part is, I recycle a couple dozen or so four or five tune shows, so it's mostly just reprinting old scores and parts...very little actual arranging the last few years. Of course, it took 20 years to build up a big enough library to do that, mostly doing "freebies" for the local university.

I have nearly 500 titles in my composition/arranging library, and only one published piece for flute choir...it's earned me maybe $400 since being published in 1991.

It all depends on who the publisher is. BVD/Cimmaron seems to do pretty well in the marketing area...

I've pretty well given up getting into any of the "major" publishing houses for marching band music for two reasons.

1. It seems to be a "good ol' boy" network
2. The arrangers I've met who write for the major publishers seem really burnt out really fast writing stuff they don't like.

The struggle making money composing/arranging is the same as the struggle to make a living performing...getting one's "foot in the door" is difficult at best.

Many, many band directors, though (at least around here), use custom arrangements for their band...my impression from talking to the ones I have written for is that they don't like the published stuff. It often doesn't play to the strengths and weaknesses of their bands and frankly often times isn't very well done.

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:Many, many band directors, though (at least around here), use custom arrangements for their band...my impression from talking to the ones I have written for is that they don't like the published stuff. It often doesn't play to the strengths and weaknesses of their bands and frankly often times isn't very well done.

This is quite true around here, too. The published charts tend to be very generic, and don't always fit a band very well. Custom written charts give more flexibility to work well for a particular band's strengths and weaknesses, just as Todd stated.

I got busy and didn't look at this thread after I posted (bad girl, me...) but thanks for the feedback. Which seems to verify pretty much what I said...you gotta write stuff that is not representative of the reason why you would compose in the first place, and you have to be able to market yourself.

The good ole boy network is everywhere that there is money to be made....can't get away from it. I probably should not get going on what I think of that. It clearly is human nature, and is just like the dominant silverback gorillas running the show.

Marketing music on eBay is an interesting idea; I don't know if I can buy back the copyright on the pieces that my publisher has a hold of, but I'm going to see if I can. And of course there is other music in the pipeline (trios) but with a very full time job (three years to retirement) and music groups, there isn't a lot of free time for writing music.

MA

There's sibeliusmusic.com too. I don't know how effective it is at making money. But I have paid for music from there.

It's the "good ole boy network" if you're on the outside.It's "networking" if you're on the inside.

Uh huh. Over 12. but....if you dress me right and look at me going away, you might fall for the notion that I'm 12.

MA

Somehow this thread title makes me think of matchbooks

"send us a sample of YOUR composition and we'll help you become a successful composer."

I've had several talks and dinners with Walter Cummings of Grand Mesa Music in Grand Junction, CO. http://www.grandmesamusic.com He's always on the lookout for new band composers that have good stuff THAT WILL SELL. He doesn't do marching band music. There's enough publishers and custom arrangers that do that well enough. I would recommend contacting him also. Here's his criteria for submitting music-

Guidelines for Concert Band and Small Ensemble Submissions PDF Print E-mail

Grand Mesa Music is currently accepting submissions by composers and arrangers. We are most interested in works in the grade 1 to 5 range for band and grades 1-3 for string orchestra, and we suggest the following guidelines:


Format
If at all possible, submit works on Coda Music's Finale music typesetting program (Macintosh version 98 & up) or Sibelius.
Paper
Scores and parts should be on 8 1/2" x 11" paper; this may necessitate combining parts on the score.
Keys

* Grade 1 - Bb, Eb
* Grade 2 - Bb, Eb, F, Ab
* Grade 3 - Bb, Eb, Ab, F, C

Rhythms

* Grade 1 - whole, dotted half, half, quarter, eighth
* Grade 2 - as above, plus sixteenth and dotted eighth/sixteenth
* Grade 3 - within reason

Other Considerations

* Avoid awkward leaps
* Use cues where needed, especially on solos
* Percussion technique can generally be more advanced than winds
* Low voices tend to be weak in many young bands. At the grade 1 level, all low voices should be written on unison lines at the octave.

Please call or write if you are interested in our Instrumentation and Range Guidelines for each grade level. Thank you!

ai698 wrote:I've had several talks and dinners with Walter Cummings of Grand Mesa Music in Grand Junction, CO. http://www.grandmesamusic.com He's always on the lookout for new band composers that have good stuff THAT WILL SELL. He doesn't do marching band music. There's enough publishers and custom arrangers that do that well enough. I would recommend contacting him also. Here's his criteria for submitting music-

Walter is a good guy and I've purchased a lot of music from him for the schools I've been at. Of course it has helped that I only live a few hours from him and that we attend a lot of the same conferences and festivals . But to keep with the topic, a lot of the music that I have purchased from Grand Mesa was from composers that I had not heard of but was excellent music. At least excellent music for my bands. I will definitley be back in touch with Walter to see what's new after I finish my graduate studies and begin teaching again.

tubashaman wrote:the composition field is cutthroat

I don't think it's so much cut-throat competition as lack of demand.

Todd S. "who is interested in what the lowest and highest notes of James' self-proclaimed 5 octave range are "Malicoate

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:

tubashaman wrote:the composition field is cutthroat

I don't think it's so much cut-throat competition as lack of demand.

Todd S. "who is interested in what the lowest and highest notes of James' self-proclaimed 5 octave range are "Malicoate

I was trying to see where the connection between cut-throat competition and James' 5 octave range. Then, suddenly, I found it. If you were to(hypothetically) cut his throat, he would probably lose all of his 5 octaves. That would not be good.

Am I correct?

TubaRay wrote:I was trying to see where the connection between cut-throat competition and James' 5 octave range. Then, suddenly, I found it. If you were to(hypothetically) cut his throat, he would probably lose all of his 5 octaves. That would not be good.

Am I correct?

No connection, I just noticed the recent addition to his signature, and was curious how he got to a 5 octave range. Assuming he can go down to pedal G with any semblance of tone, that would put his highest note in a 5 octave range as the G on top of the treble clef staff. Seems improbable, at best, to claim that kind of high stuff in one's usable range. I was kind of suspecting that James thinks a 5 octave range means you can play 5 octaves of Gs, while the rest of the world knows that would only be a 4 octave range. I could be mistaken, of course.

But, Ray, the humor in your post is noted and enjoyed.

Todd S. "with a slightly over 4 octave range, but who can "squeak 'em out" a bit higher" Malicoate

This is not relating to make a living with composing, but I am soon entering the Orlando Philharmonic's Young Composers Challenge. I've been working on my piece for a while and I really like it. I think it's very good practice for me to write a healthy-length (4 minutes 45 seconds-ish) piece for a whole symphony orchestra.

I really hope I become a finalist, because I get my score back with comments from the judges. THAT, I think, would be much more valuable than the $1000 I would win.

The Jackson wrote:I really hope I become a finalist, because I get my score back with comments from the judges. THAT, I think, would be much more valuable than the $1000 I would win.

That's a very good perspective to have, and also true.

Are you studying composition with anyone? Feedback is probably the most important tool a composer/arranger has at his/her disposal...being able to hear your music played by real people (not a machine) is best, but critique from a seasoned composer is also very valuable. Bach and Haydn both learned their craft by studying the scores of former great composers...you should do the same.

Getting the music done in the first place is the most difficult piece of the puzzle, but you already know that. Good luck in your competition! Enter as many as you can!

Thanks, Todd!

I haven't studied composition with anyone. A few people have heard work, but no real feedback. I've been arranging a lot of stuff for a few months now, but I've recently begun original pieces.

I had the very good fortune to have a number of my brass quintet arrangements (and one short original piece) be played as sight-reading material when I was at camp this summer. It was a very good experience for me.

the elephant wrote:If you win you can always send me the money. I will even send along some additional comments for you!

Me to, and as for the comments, you don't even need to send me the score!

For years I struggled to make it as a tubist, rock musician, singer/songwriter, and finally as a film composer. Not the easiest ways to make a living, for sure, and I never made much money doing those things. I always wondered what was in store for the talents I was given, and it wasn't until I looked to God for His answers, and depended on Him that I actually found my way as an artist in this world.

Proverbs 16:3 (AMP)

Roll your works upon the LORD [commit and trust them wholly to Him; He will cause your thoughts to become agreeable to His will, and] so shall your plans be established and succeed.

It was only after I was baptized and realized that I could no longer live in Hollywood as a musician and observe the Sabbath, that I decided to put my whole life in His hands. I took my dog to the mountains and fasted for a week all alone. When I got back to Los Angeles, the very next Sabbath a job was anounced in TV production for my Church's program, Tomorrow's World.

Today I am directing, producing, editing, filming, and most of all scoring music for our worldwide broadcast, and also our feature films for the Feast of Tabernacles and other worldwide Church events. Finally I'm making a good living at music, and other creative talents I love. My job is exciting, and I'm participating in a Work that I truly believe in. I just got married to the love of my life, and have material blessings beyong anything I could have imagined only one year ago.

How did this all happen to this tubist born on Sunset Blvd. in Hollywood CA to two atheist parents in a world gone mad?

Jeremiah 17:7 (NKJV)

7 “ Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD,
And whose hope is the LORD.
8 For he shall be like a tree planted by the waters,
Which spreads out its roots by the river,
And will not fear when heat comes;
But its leaf will be green,
And will not be anxious in the year of drought,
Nor will cease from yielding fruit.
9 “ The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
10 I, the LORD, search the heart,
I test the mind,
Even to give every man according to his ways,
According to the fruit of his doings.
11 “ As a partridge that broods but does not hatch,
So is he who gets riches, but not by right;
It will leave him in the midst of his days,
And at his end he will be a fool.”
12 A glorious high throne from the beginning
Is the place of our sanctuary.
13 O LORD, the hope of Israel,
All who forsake You shall be ashamed.

“ Those who depart from Me
Shall be written in the earth,
Because they have forsaken the LORD,
The fountain of living waters.”

http://www.TomorrowsWorld.org