TubeNet

Some recent threads got me thinking.
I have overheard several coversations between tuba players about practicing vs playing abilty. Most of them went as follows:
Tuba X says he/she better than tuba Y, but tuba Y won the audition because he/she "practices". Tuba X continues to say he/she could win any audition if he/she only "practiced" and that tuba Y can't really compare.

Sound familiar?

Next scenario:
Tuba X says he could play on the same level as Pokorny, Baer, Sheridan, Bobo etc... if he only practiced, or had the time, or didn't have a "real job", or....you get the picture.

PLEASE NOTE! I am not referring to those folks to made another career choice than tuba performance or players whose priorities changed. These people usually have non performance gigs and continue to keep playing on the side. I know MANY people who have the "chops" to play full time and have decided, for various reasons, not to (many of which are on this board). I very much admire these players and they don't usually boast about what they COULD do.

My question is, why do folks feel the need to profess to others how great they could be? This has been an issue with both old and young players. Many of which are very confrontational to their peers about it.

Ok.........so I'm ranting.

What do you guys and gals thinks?

It ain't just the tuba world either.

http://tinyurl.com/68bvk

(in my best Deniro voice...)

"I'll wait, but let me tell you, if this steak was the middleweight championship, I'd show you how I'd wait. I'd eat it raw, I'd drink the blood. I'd eat it before it came out of the cow. That's how I'd wait."

Robert Deniro as Jake La Motta in Raging Bull.

The truly staggering thing is that these people think they're saying something good about themselves, when it seems to me they should be terribly embarrassed to have missed out because they had all the natural ability and pissed it away.

I don't know how good I could have been if I'd worked harder; but to the extent I could have achieved more I'd consider it a confession, not a boast, that I didn't work harder.
________________________________
Joe Baker, who cringes when he hears stuff like this.

I hear those lines every single contest, or chair test at my school..

when the little ol freshman beats out a junior/senior its always "well IF I practiced".. Gets old quite fast I think the reason they do it tho is it makes the feeling of being beat by that person not hurt so bad.

Another one that gets me are the ones who say dont' make all region on like trumpet, and wanna say "its just easier to make it on tuba", even when that person say makes 1st 1st on tuba..

I'll never understand why people must boast on themselves like that, if anything I am much more modest about my abilities and gracious to others who beat me.. not letting them know what I "could" had done.

I would say that nearly every profession on earth has these types of people, but in my opinion, music seems to have the most.

Here are some other great musical "fish tales" I hear players say:
Old player says to younger player, "I really used to be a virtuoso and can wipe the floor with you, but I have better things to do than play tuba all day."

Tuba X says, "Tuba Y is a better 'technical' player than me, but I'm a better 'musician' than he/she is." In most cases, Tuba X has neither musical sense or techical profiency and this is painfully obvious to everyone except Tuba X.

Some tuba players and adult entertainers have more in common than one might think.

In defense of all the great players who don't just make a living playing tuba...

As this world quickens every day, there is more and more specialization. Just 20 years ago there were far less virtuoso players, and I suspect that the graph would consistently fall as we go back in time.

These days there are so many people in the world. And so many great, modern instruments that have become more and more affordable. It appears to me that as the human race evolves, there is going to be a bigger and bigger pool of terrific tubists, and the competion will get tougher and tougher for fewer and fewer jobs. The cost of living keeps going up, and the chance for one to work at a profession they really enjoy keeps going down. More musical talent is fighting over less jobs than ever before.

I suspect there are many great players who "could have" played pro and chose other things. For me that other thing was composing, which ironically enough has brought me more great tuba gigs than I ever played when I was studying to be an "orchestral pro". Finding something could be a blessing for any player.

People should be careful about boasting in general, but when I hear that sort of thing("could have, should have"), I tend to believe it. I just don't tend to stick around long enough to hear anymore stories.

tubaman5150 wrote:Tuba X says he could play on the same level as Pokorny, Baer, Sheridan, Bobo etc...

My first instinct is to reply: "Well, may be you could be, but you aren't." However, I still have some manners, so I guess I would just say: "Oh, I see."

"Tuba X says he could play on the same level as Pokorney, Baer, Sheridan, Bobo, etc."

My response would be, "So what made you decide not to go ahead and do it." If I am then told it is because of the circumstances, I would have to add, "I wonder if those guys had such a perfect set of circumstances that nothing was ever in their way. No wonder they are so good. You know, now that I think of it, I think I could have done it, too."

(I know. I know. I'm a wise guy.)(If only I truly were. Wise, that is.)

tubaman5150 wrote:My question is, why do folks feel the need to profess to others how great they could be? This has been an issue with both old and young players. Many of which are very confrontational to their peers about it.

Hey, some people are jerks.

The more common quote I hear is, "My chops are toast--I haven't played a note in three weeks" Of course, no amount of lip time will solve the problems that are apparent for all to hear. I've used this one myself, heh, heh.

The truth of the matter is that I practice as much as I want to. It's not enough practice to consistently improve, and like all hobbyists I improve in fits and starts. Thus, I'm apparently as good as I want to be. But even if I had four hours a day to practice, I probably would not. Being another Pokorny requires a single-minded devotion to practice--the practice is the end as much as the means. Runners say that the training and the training lifestyle is the point of being a runner, not the races. The devotion is the hard part, not the talent. (For Jay: The devotion might be the talent.) Thus, that I would not practice as much as Gene is a more profound difference between us than how good I might or might not be if I did. Fact is, I don't, and wouldn't even if I had the time. And if I could be that good, I would probably make the time, because it would be more important to me.

Rick "not single-minded about anything for too long at a time" Denney

Don't boast, just play.

Let the audience boast for you. (or maybe not--whichever fits)

As for those that do boast... They are only hurting themselves. Pity them.

I always have a hard time with this, but every day, I wake up and tell myself that I need to go to school, pull out the tuba, take it up to the third floor of old Smith Music Hall, and just play that tuba to the best of my ability for that day.

Tuba playing in general can be a very challenging thing in comparison to many other instruments. My best friend, she's a trumpet player. They have a lot of technique and what not to master. What most other instrument players don't realize is that we tuba players can do the same things that they can, blowing through a small kitchen sink in order to produce vibrations.

I figure you're always going to be better than someone and worse than someone. The more one practices, the fewer people to be better than you though, right??

MellowSmokeMan wrote:Some tuba players and adult entertainers have more in common than one might think.

In defense of all the great players who don't just make a living playing tuba...

As this world quickens every day, there is more and more specialization. Just 20 years ago there were far less virtuoso players, and I suspect that the graph would consistently fall as we go back in time.

These days there are so many people in the world. And so many great, modern instruments that have become more and more affordable. It appears to me that as the human race evolves, there is going to be a bigger and bigger pool of terrific tubists, and the competion will get tougher and tougher for fewer and fewer jobs. The cost of living keeps going up, and the chance for one to work at a profession they really enjoy keeps going down. More musical talent is fighting over less jobs than ever before.

I suspect there are many great players who "could have" played pro and chose other things. For me that other thing was composing, which ironically enough has brought me more great tuba gigs than I ever played when I was studying to be an "orchestral pro". Finding something could be a blessing for any player.

People should be careful about boasting in general, but when I hear that sort of thing("could have, should have"), I tend to believe it. I just don't tend to stick around long enough to hear anymore stories.

I agree with what your saying, but theres a big difference between those players who chose a different path or opportunities and those who boast about what they could have done.
The two are usually easy to tell apart.
As I said, I look up to those folks who manage to keep playing with a non performance job. I'm not saying performance is the ultimate goal in music, but many start out with aspirations to do that and then their priorities and goals change. Many of these people still manage to keep active in performance out of simple "love for the game" .
For them, its not about boasting about what they could do, its about doing what they want to do.

bloke wrote:

I figure you're always going to be better than someone and worse than someone. The more one practices, the fewer people to be better than you though, right??

Even at the "virtuoso" level there are no "first chairs". If all virtuosi played in the same manner, what would be the purpose of auditing more than one of them? Further, music cannot effectively be completely analogized to sports or other competitive endeavors.

I definately agree. I suppose I wasn't making myself quite clear in my statement. I realize that the individualism in music in general is what makes competition for jobs and what have you a very challenging experience. It's not a sport by any means either (although playing the horn itself should earn you a PE credit or two along the way).

We all have our place in the world I imagine. I suppose what I should really say is that the harder the work, the better you increase your chances of winning auditions, etc., although by no means does it guarantee you the spot.

Certainly I think there is a cycle involved. We are constantly learning from people who were once greater than us as they too had learned. In the end, it's all a matter of when you decide not to take in anything new, and to be satisfied with what you've obtained through teachings and experience.