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that car commercials are carefully crafted by manufacturers with soft-spoken announcers and nice music, but the local dealers use some idiot (or two) who are yelling at the top of their lungs for you to buy from them (with an incredibly loud music background)?

This woiuld seem to be self-defeating.

Car manufacturers have done loads of research on what sells their name.

The local car-selling idiots usually do not spend any money on research and think quantity of volume is quality of promotion.

However, there is a HUGE luxury car dealer near me. They sell BMW, Mercedes, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Porshce, Audi, Volvo, Acura, Infinity, Lexus, etc. They have adopted the very low-key approach to their promotions. In fact, they do little television advertising and put their money into local print ads in business and upscale publications and radio ads (sponsorship) on the local "public" radio station.

The folks selling the Japanese products seem to be a little more tame also. However, the folks selling the detroit products make a lot of racket when on the air. It also amazes me how many FoMoCo, GM, and Daimler-Chrysler dealers there are in the smallest state in the union.

Oddly enough, the foreign brands have figured out how to sell to the native of the US better than the American brands have.

People want to buy the best possible car from the stupidest possible seller.

The car company, with their very sophisticated and professional ads, is going after your confidence in the product; the local seller WANTS to look cheap and stupid, so the consumer (who has already decided he HAS to have the Whizzbang 390i -- with the big engine and racing suspension) will think this is the dealer who will give him the best deal. The more noise, clowns, and trained seals, the better!

_____________________________
Joe Baker, who knows a couple of folks in the business.

We have several 'screamers' here in southern Indiana.... selling cars, truck, and furniture. It's gotten to be a big joke. We've got one pretty outragous dude who is also on the local school board. That type of selling must work because it goes on just about everywhere. I think I'll do a couple of hollering commercials and get me a blimp to fly above the shop! Hey! Where can I rent a 50' tall sousaphone?

Matthew Gilchrest wrote:Oddly enough, the foreign brands have figured out how to sell to the native of the US better than the American brands have.

They understand that we already know that the cars exist, and that the best sales pitch comes from other owners.

When everyone you know that owns a certain make says, "Mine hasn't broken anything in 250,000 miles, and it's still running fine," it's a better pitch than anything a salesman or ad agency can come up with.

Leland wrote:When everyone you know that owns a certain make says, "Mine hasn't broken anything in 250,000 miles, and it's still running fine," it's a better pitch than anything a salesman or ad agency can come up with.

They never add the bit about the fact that it had to last that long so they could pay it off.

For what you get in terms of size, comfort, and features, American cars are cheaper. They are not as durable as, say, a Camry, but not everyone wants to keep a car ten years.

Rick "who once put 170,000 miles on an Audi before it was paid off" Denney

Rick Denney wrote: For what you get in terms of size, comfort, and features, American cars are cheaper. They are not as durable as, say, a Camry, but not everyone wants to keep a car ten years.

Yeah, some of us would like to keep ours more than 20.
--------------------------
Chuck (whose 14 year old Volvo wagon passed 200,000 some time ago and still gets 22-25 mpg around town and runs very well, thank you) (G)

Rick Denney wrote:For what you get in terms of size, comfort, and features, American cars are cheaper. They are not as durable as, say, a Camry, but not everyone wants to keep a car ten years.

Funny that the Japanese got into this market on price, but there cars were small.

When comparing a Malibu to a Camry to an Accord to a Taurus, there is not much price difference for the features given, maybe a 2% variance.

Here are some models (all base consumer model prices quoted)

New Malibu: 21150MSRP/19352Invoice
New Taurus: 20685MSRP/18952Invoice
New Camry: 19145MSRP/17133Invoice(5sp Manual)
New Accord: 16995MSRP/15302Invoice

EPA Capacity:

Malibu: 101 Cu. FT Interior/15.0 Cu. FT Storage
Taurus: 105 Cu. FT Interior/17.0 Cu. FT Storage
Camry: 102 Cu. FT Interior/17.0 Cu. FT Storage
Accord: 103 Cu. FT Interior/14.0 Cu. FT Storage

Now, on the base for these models, the Japanese (American made) vehicles have 4cyl motors as opposed to the V6's in the American brands. Only the Chevy has significantly more power. However, the Honda and Toyota get better mileage and will last longer. Funny, these cars (Honda and Toyota) will still normally accelerate at about the same pace as the Detroit offerings.

Now, as an owner of two German vehicles and a son of a father who owns a BMW and a Volvo, I will say that the European offerings do not compare in these terms. However, you would pay a lot of money to find a sedan in the US that could match the performance capabilities of a BMW 530i.

I don't think that Detroit offers anything that is neccesarily "cheaper" anymore. When one factors in upkeep, fuel, and resale, the American cars can often cost more than imports. That includes any features to make everything even.

These deals are CRAAZZZY!

Chuck(G) wrote: Yeah, some of us would like to keep ours more than 20.

I want to know how many of them will still be going in 30+. And how many would anyone still want in 30 years?

I'll keep driving my 34 year old car untill I get one that's 10 years older

Matthew Gilchrest wrote: Now, as an owner of two German vehicles and a son of a father who owns a BMW and a Volvo, I will say that the European offerings do not compare in these terms. However, you would pay a lot of money to find a sedan in the US that could match the performance capabilities of a BMW 530i.

I'd be nice if somone were to offer a real luxury car again. I want a large roomy car that floats down the road, and holds 6-9 adults comfortably. Best I've seen today hold 2 in the fornt and 3 (but ony 2 comfortably) in the back. But they ride and handle like sports cars, with out the acceleration.

Give me a 30+ year old detroit ride. Laid back comfort, and a smooth ride.

I would love to introduce the people who design these ads to my remote control. I don't spend too much time in front of the tube (maybe tubeNET, but not the TV) but when I do I always have my remote nearby so I can quickly stifle the annoying loud people. I usually go for mute first, then try to find something else to watch for a couple of minutes.

I don't know how anyone ever concluded that loud and annoying sells. It's probably the quickest way get my ears to shut down.

Tim

[quote=ThomasDodd]Give me a 30+ year old detroit ride. Laid back comfort, and a smooth ride.[/quote]

My first car was a 1967 Mercury Montclair. It had a 390ci Y-block. It had power windows (4 of them), power seats, a/c, am radio, dual rear view mirros and was a 3-speed auto. It was a two-door hardtop (each door weighed about 400lbs) and I put chrome rims with wide tires on it. I also darktinted all the windows.



It was this color.

It was fast, in a straight line. It could burn rubber all day long. I smoked out a ton of street parties.

Oh, but the brakes stunk (all drums no power assist) and even on wider smaller tires and after I lowered and stiffened the suspension, the handling still sucked. Emergency manuevering was a joke.

You can still get a Crown Vic that has just about the same amount of interior room, but it still isn't as fast. The ride is very similar and so are the handling characteristics.

A BMW 7-Series is almost the car you seek. It holds five adults (big ones, trust me) in comfort. It has a smooth ride, but can stop and handle as well. Plus, it will put most pony-type cars to shame in acceleration and top end. Unfortunately, it costs around $90K new.

I agree that in the 60's, Detroit made cars were cutting edge. They could accelerate well and handle a load and people well. Unfortunately, safety needs have changed and consumers have decided they need something different. The stop distances and handling characteristics of my 67 Mercury and your vehicle are no longer acceptable to both the (in)abilities of today's driver and the required safety needs of government regulations.

tjs wrote: ... I always have my remote nearby so I can quickly stifle the annoying loud people.

You ought to get yourself a PVR. THE best invention in the last 10 years, IMHO. Set it to record the two hours worth of programs you're interested in tonight, then tomorrow come home and watch all of it -- skipping the commercials -- in about 80 minutes. Or start a program, pause it, then go grab a snack and use the necessary, then come back 10 minutes later and resume, skip the commercials, and finish right on time. Phone rings at the climax of your show? Just hit 'pause'. Decide, midway through watching a show, that you want to record it? No problem, a couple of clicks and it's saved, so you can play it into the VCR at your convenience. Amazing!
________________________________
Joe Baker, who hardly ever sees a commercial any more.

Matthew Gilchrest wrote:

ThomasDodd wrote:Give me a 30+ year old detroit ride. Laid back comfort, and a smooth ride.

My first car was a 1967 Mercury Montclair.

sweet car Wish you still had it?

Oh, but the brakes stunk (all drums no power assist) and even on wider smaller tires and after I lowered and stiffened the suspension, the handling still sucked. Emergency manuevering was a joke.

Power brakes and front discs on my 70. I could go 4 wheel discs, but want to keep it original.

But I don't want the stiffer suspension, tight handling. If I wanted a sports car ride, I'd but one. I wnat a car ment for driving, relaxed on the open road. I'm not driving twisty, winding roads at 60MPH. On the crappy roads here, The soft suspension makes for a much smoother ride. I gust drove a 2005 Stratus, and hated the ride.

You can still get a Crown Vic that has just about the same amount of interior room, but it still isn't as fast. The ride is very similar and so are the handling characteristics.

A BMW 7-Series is almost the car you seek. It holds five adults (big ones, trust me) in comfort. It has a smooth ride, but can stop and handle as well. Plus, it will put most pony-type cars to shame in acceleration and top end. Unfortunately, it costs around $90K new.

Only 5? What ever happened to bench seats, especially in the front? And how comfortable is the middle seat in the back? Last I checked they all had 2 "seats" in the back, with a connection between the seats that wasn't real comfortable.

I know the back seat in my Merc. Mountaineer and the Stratus really only hold 2 adults comfortably. The middle position in the back just isn't going to work for an adult male of average size.

I agree that in the 60's, Detroit made cars were cutting edge. They could accelerate well and handle a load and people well. Unfortunately, safety needs have changed and consumers have decided they need something different. The stop distances and handling characteristics of my 67 Mercury and your vehicle are no longer acceptable to both the (in)abilities of today's driver and the required safety needs of government regulations.

I would disagree somewhat. The handling is fine for somone who bothers to learn. That's a major issue today though. To many operators and not enough drivers. That why SUVs are dangerous. The vehicles are fine, but many treat then like low riding sports cars and they are not. They have a high center of gravity and must be driven differently. Min-vans are parially to blame, having give people a low riding, car like drive, with lot's of space. Now people are driving SUVs more like a car than they ever drove a mini-van.

But those old cars could easily meet governemet safety regulations. Unibody construction, crumple zones, restraint systems, ABS and most other good features could be added easily. Current engine technology with current construction could easily get good economy even in large vehicles. It's the operators that need work, but tht was another thread.

Joe Baker wrote:

tjs wrote: ... I always have my remote nearby so I can quickly stifle the annoying loud people.

You ought to get yourself a PVR. THE best invention in the last 10 years, IMHO.

I'll second the PVR recomendation. Especially when combined with a satellite system.

I figure it the best thing in more than 10 years though. More like 20. I cannot think of any new tech devices that have been more useful to me in that period. Digital cameras are close, but more limited in application for me.

ThomasDodd wrote:I'd be nice if somone were to offer a real luxury car again. I want a large roomy car that floats down the road, and holds 6-9 adults comfortably.

Did you just describe a Hummer H2?

Mark wrote:

ThomasDodd wrote:I'd be nice if somone were to offer a real luxury car again. I want a large roomy car that floats down the road, and holds 6-9 adults comfortably.

Did you just describe a Hummer H2?

Naw. The H2 isn't a car, has bucket seats in the front, and the ride sucks. Not at all the float down the road type of ride I want.

Now, I wouldn't mind a real militaery surplus hummer, maybe even the H1. But not the H2 or soon to be H3. No way. No how. Not ever.

ThomasDodd wrote:

Mark wrote:

ThomasDodd wrote:I'd be nice if somone were to offer a real luxury car again. I want a large roomy car that floats down the road, and holds 6-9 adults comfortably.

Did you just describe a Hummer H2?

Naw. The H2 isn't a car, has bucket seats in the front, and the ride sucks. Not at all the float down the road type of ride I want.

Now, I wouldn't mind a real militaery surplus hummer, maybe even the H1. But not the H2 or soon to be H3. No way. No how. Not ever.

Hmmmm.... perhaps one of these little sweeties to haul our tubas in....

http://www.internationaldelivers.com/si ... re/cxt.asp

I sure am glad that so many people buy brand new cars because I
drive junk.I will always drive junk.And I am trying to elevate driving
junk into an art form.
Your frendly Fart Man