TubeNet

Twice in the past 4 days, there has been a family murder-suicide in my home state of Maryland. And these are only two of many other such tragedies from the past several months alone.

I am SO saddened and outraged by this that I don't know what else to say. My thoughts and prayers are with the families and everyone close to them. I only hope that people can start getting the help they need before anything else happens.

Have you read the book by Malcolm Gladwell, "The Tipping Point"? He has a fairly interesting perspective on why things like this happen. Sad when people use a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

bloke wrote:alcohol/drugs = mental illness/violence

I can't help but comment that this is a bit of an oversimplification.

Yes, I agree that alcohol and drug use can and often do lead to mental illness and violence, and that avoiding their use can help avoid mental illness and violence.

But, the post also *implies* that alcohol and drug use are always involved in mental illness and violence. There are lots of things that can lead to the kind of tragedy the OP described, many of them not at all related to substance abuse, and fully treatable if a person is able to seek proper professional help.

I realize these two guys will disagree with me:

bloke wrote:alcohol/drugs = mental illness/violence

If you follow the statistical implication found in the above book reference, heavy smokers are often prone to mental illness. The issue comes from basically a person who has chemical issues. I also agree that it is often treatable, however, those with the mental illness find no fun in treating themselves properly and prefer to use "homeopathic" remedies found at the nearest corner (store).

bloke wrote:

Matthew Gilchrest wrote:

bloke wrote:alcohol/drugs = mental illness/violence

If you follow the statistical implication found in the above book reference, heavy smokers are often prone to mental illness. The issue comes from basically a person who has chemical issues. I also agree that it is often treatable, however, those with the mental illness find no fun in treating themselves properly and prefer to use "homeopathic" remedies found at the nearest corner (store).

Exactly. I didn't make any statement as to which is the "chicken" and which is the "egg".

Both of you paint with a rather broad brush.

No doubt that there are many mentally ill running wild on the streets. I'm guessing that many of them have not helped their case by using drugs of all kinds. Some of them are in the state they are in because they *aren't* taking their drugs. I don't have any sort of answer to taking care of mentally ill people who can't or won't be helped.

However, many people with mental illness are living their lives as best they can within the constraints of their conditions. It's amazing what a proper dosage of pills can do for a person's life. You might be surprised if you knew who around you is being successfully treated for a mental illness.

bloke wrote:

The Big Ben wrote:You might be surprised if you knew who around you is being successfully treated for a mental illness.

You might be surprised if you knew who around me is being semi-successfully treated, and yet slips back into (just as Matt referred to) brilliant forms of "self-medication" from time-to-time.

bloke "Is this a 'surprise contest', or an 'I'm going to assume you're ignorant/inexperienced so I'll lecture you a bit' contest?"

Neither.

I said you were painting with a broad brush. There are more types of people with mental illness than what you two describe. It is frustrating to see people who won't help themselves by taking prescribed medicines and hurt themselves by ingesting all sorts of things not prescribed. There are others which frequently are hard to see without personally knowing them who are accepting their treatments and are not dosing themselves with drugs from the corner store.

I am neither ignorant nor inexperienced. I know many people who are successfully being treated for a mental illness. I am one myself. But, in working with children and families for the last 28 years, I've seen many family situations that are terrible because of mental illness and substance abuse. I don't have a broad brush answer but do know that proper treatment can help people live better lives.

To try to bring it back on topic, here's a reference in the local paper about this 'kill the family' violence":

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/l ... e20m0.html" target="_blank

This discusses a case in the Seattle area just a few weeks ago where a guy killed his five kids and then himself because his wife was leaving him. He used a legally obtained and licensed gun but, if not the gun, he probably would have used something else.

--

You can never tell what drives people to irrational conclusions.

Two weeks ago, I attended the funeral of my former boss, who owned the company for which I managed a division at the time I moved to Virginia. He sold the company (primarily as a result of my efforts to salvage the employees) to the company whose name is now on my business card because he had been caught paying a bribe to a federal official. Both he and the federal official went to prison. That was ten years ago, and it is clear that he was leading an ostensibly happy life in the subsequent years. I don't know what he was doing, though--he always kept that to himself--but I do know it wasn't in our industry, where nobody would get near him in any case.

He was not evil, but he did make some really stupid decisions. He paid for those decisions long since.

So, why did he, after all these years, reach the point where he had to end it all? Nobody knows. One would have thought that having already endured the loss of face (and he was Chinese, so concern about a loss of face is built into his genes) from the scandal and the year at the Graybar Hotel that he would be looking forward. Just don't know.

But what really knocked everyone off their feet was that he took his wife with him. According to police reports, as reported in the media, he stabbed his wife in the heart, set the house afire, and burned himself up. It was planned--he put important papers and heirlooms in one of the family cars and parked both cars away from the house out in the neighborhood. Stabbing? That seems an incredibly personal way to kill someone that everyone acknowledge he loved dearly. The shock of it still has not subsided. His love and regard for his family was absolutely unquestioned by anyone, and despite his stupid decisions of the past, he was still a highly gifted engineer and meticulous in his thinking.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01165.html" target="_blank

I don't like funerals and this one was a nightmare.

Rick "quite sure that neither substances nor any remotely apparent mental illness played a role here" Denney

I suspect that it is nigh on to impossible for most of us to even begin to understand how many of these types of violence become the solution to problems. There are a tremendous number of factors that go into each situation--I don't know, or pretend to know all of them; that said, these incidents do not occur in a vacuum.

Rick, those types of funerals are indeed difficult. (My sister just went to one, where the founder of the Oregon market chain she works for stabbed his wife of 67 years and then himself, dying 5 days later; my sister had a real hard time with it.)

Edit: As I was logging on this evening, I saw that, in Georgia, a professor shot and killed his wife and two men. At least he dropped the kids at a neighbors residence AFTER he was done...manhunt underway; any guesses as to his ultimate outcome?

And, without releasing any information, I am working a WIERD one at work...