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I ran into an individual online who is claiming to have a degree that he does not have. He is using the degree and the school's name to promote himself as a professional. Needless to say, his "how-to video" is awful and would be an embarrassment to ANY school.

I've already notified the director from the school--he's the one that informed me that this kid has no music degree from this school. I hope they can handle it from here--get the video pulled, and make sure this kid will never claim this false degree again.

The whole thing got me thinking--what can happen to you if you claim a degree you do not have? Is it a criminal offence, or just something the school can sue you for? Is it illegal at all? (Boy, I hope it is) Does the context matter?? (ie does it matter if the offender simply states the false claim, or does he/she have to try to profit from it?)

If it's not illegal, then I have a degree in everything from everywhere!!

To the question of whether it is illegal, or carries the potential for a lawsuit, I do not know the answer.

I do know that it would be very, very easy grounds to fire somebody (even a civil service or tenure employee) if it is discovered that credentials were falsified.

But then why the standard disclaimer "I'm not an x, nor do I play one on TV"... ?

bloke wrote:I recall (quite a few years ago, I'm pretty sure it was) a major university less than a hour away from me hiring a music department chairman who buffaloed their resume. I'm pretty sure the person was asked to leave (as they disappeared rather quickly) but I dunno if they followed up with any legal action.

On the internet, anyone can say anything...but a big university hiring a chairman of a department...?? ' seems as though their vetting process would be just a bit tighter.

bloke "but quite a few folks who are employed by major universities tend to 'want to believe' quite a bit of 'stuff', I guess..."

You would be surprised at the sheer number of people who "fluff" (translation: LIE on) their resumes--especially when it comes college degrees. I personally know of more than a few instances where Harvard, Yale, Columbia, UT-Austin, Stanford and other top universities have HIRED and PROMOTED personnel who lied about earning degrees (one woman was promoted all the way to a VP before it was discovered she had earned only BSc degree and lied about having 2 graduate degrees).

Lying about having a college degree is not illegal--but its a great way to kill your chances for getting a job and/or getting fired quickly if your deception is discovered.

JJ

knuxie wrote:One person taught courses in suveying because she basically inherited the job from her father and was VERY GOOD.

It wouldn't matter. Surveying is a licensed profession in every state, and advertising it as a service without the license is against the law, just as it is for engineers. Getting the license without the degree would be an interesting challenge. It is no longer possible for engineers to get a new license without a degree.

Applicants to government jobs that require a college degree now have to supply a transcript. All states require transcripts sent to them directly for licensing professionals in fields where the degree is required. I know how many transcripts I've had to order over the years for such purposes.

I would think that misrepresenting one's credentials to offer a service for hire is a fraud, which is a crime and is also subject to civil action.

Rick "lying to attract paid work is committing a fraud" Denney

Rick Denney wrote:

knuxie wrote:One person taught courses in suveying because she basically inherited the job from her father and was VERY GOOD.

It wouldn't matter. Surveying is a licensed profession in every state, and advertising it as a service without the license is against the law, just as it is for engineers. Getting the license without the degree would be an interesting challenge. It is no longer possible for engineers to get a new license without a degree.

Applicants to government jobs that require a college degree now have to supply a transcript. All states require transcripts sent to them directly for licensing professionals in fields where the degree is required. I know how many transcripts I've had to order over the years for such purposes.

I would think that misrepresenting one's credentials to offer a service for hire is a fraud, which is a crime and is also subject to civil action.

Rick "lying to attract paid work is committing a fraud" Denney

Here is where people can get into legal trouble: You apply for a for job that requires you to submit official college transcripts. You can claim to have a degree from UT-Austin--a state supported university, which means its an agency of the State of Texas. So when you supply your fake transcripts (you can buy them on the internet) you are submitting false state documents which IS a criminal act.

JJ

I had to submit transcripts (sent directly from the schools) from every post-secondary school I ever attended for my adjunct position. I was not officially hired until everything went through. I believe this was required more for the accreditation than the specific school's policies.

Potential employers and those thinking of doing business certainly should check references and credentials.

Serious consequences exist for those in licensed activities and professions who deliberately deceive or fail to correct misapprehensions. For example, a licensed chiropractor got in trouble with a state licensing authority because he added on letters to his signs, business, cards, etc for a Doctor of Medicine degree which he had obtained from a mail order school in Europe.

Other, non-accredited programs are only a small notch above mail order degrees. They may give credit for "life experience," or award a Ph.D. for working from only one general, survey-style text book.

Also, accrediting bodies for suspect schools may be suspect themselves, and may only exist on paper.

I've read of people claiming to have attended Ivy League institutions when the truth was that they had only enrolled in a particular, short conference located at the school.

One popular author and speaker who has done well despite having only a non-accredited degree (except for high school) is "John Gray, Ph.D." He is famous for his Mars-Venus characterization of men and women. In my opinion, he does have some interesting ideas, but they are not based on science or analytical reasoning. Evidently, the claimed Ph.D came Columbia Pacific University.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_P ... University" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Another example of a trap in the United States is for Notary Publics to overpromote their professionalism to unsuspecting Spanish-speakers, to whom "Notario" may signify a licensed attorney.
http://www.abanet.org/abanet/media/rele ... easeid=727" target="_blank" target="_blank

Dean E wrote:Another example of a trap in the United States is for Notary Publics to overpromote their professionalism to unsuspecting Spanish-speakers, to whom "Notario" may signify a licensed attorney.

Would that be a "Notorious Public" be in Latin?

Dean E wrote:I've read of people claiming to have attended Ivy League institutions when the truth was that they had only enrolled in a particular, short conference located at the school.

Nothing replaces an understanding of the business by those doing the hiring. The problem is that understanding is more and more being put in the hands of human resources specialists, or even automated systems, and less in the hands of domain experts and the hiree's future managers.

For example, anyone who has a "Certificate in Highway Traffic" from the Yale Bureau of Highway Traffic gets huge respect from me. That one-year program (long-since defunct) was not a graduate degree, but everyone I know in my business whose opinion counts respects it as if it was. But the "Certificate in Traffic Safety" from Northwestern University was a six-week short course that just didn't have anything like the same depth. Both might look the same to an HR person--both use the same word and both are from well-known and highly respected universities. The certificate from the Yale Bureau would probably earn one a Master of Engineering, which is a practitioner degree (versus an MS degree in engineering, which is an academic degree), at most schools these days. Yale's standard was higher than that back in the day.

If I'm hiring an engineer and they have a license, then I don't worry about the degree--their licensing authority would have inspected that more closely than I would be able to. But if they have a graduate degree, I probably know their prof and I can find out more about them with a five-minute phone call than I would get from any transcript. That path would be unavailable to an HR person.

So, they expect applicants to tell the truth, require documentation where they can, and then threaten them with immediate dismissal if they exaggerate. Decisions become more arbitrary and easier to game.

By the way, it's not that easy to fake a transcript from the University of Texas. They are printed on safety paper--I have one in my hands as we speak (a real one, I assure you). Even making a readable photocopy is difficult, and impossible without the word "copy" being visible in tiny letters all over the document. But when I've applied for engineering licenses in a state (I'm licensed in four going on five states), they've wanted the transcripts sent directly to them, often in a sealed envelope with a relevant signature across the seal, and sometimes with clear adhesive tape over the signature. These rules have gotten stricter over the years which suggests to me that less qualified people are doing the examining, and more applicants are fibbing.

Rick "skeptical about credentials but with other ways of checking references" Denney

LJV wrote:Hey, Putz, it's not your doctorate UNLESS YOU COMPLETED IT!

(following their logic, even undergrad stuff counts, too, because it's on the way... )

I'm in the same Boat as Rick. My job is one that requires I be state licensed as a Geologist or Civil Engineer. It's easy enough to check, our state has an online license look up. I type in a name or reg Number and bingo....either they are in good standing or not.

In CA the rules are written such that one "cannot offer to contract to provide" whatever service, without the license. and people get busted pretty regularly for trying to fake it.