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No this isn't the place to throw your frustrations with your HS teacher

As you may or may not know I am a band/choir teacher at a small rural school. When hired I was told that I was required to have the band at all the home basketball games. Since we co-op with the next school over its not so bad as there's only 6 games here (3 boys, 3 girls). I only have 8-9 students in the HS and the same in the JH bands. The instrumentation isn't too bad so can't really complain there, thankfully. I tell the students that these "performances" are required (as it has been stated to me by the administration) and part of their grades.

Now I automatically loose some to the sport itself and while I am not happy about it, it is the nature of things. Where my frustrations begin to arise are that I now have students coming up to me stating that they will be out of town this day or they have appts for this or that on that day and the admin is excusing the students. How do you deal with such things in your schools?

We have a game this weekend and I'm down at least 4 students due to loosing them to the game or admin approved absences. The only thing that is going to save my proverbial behind is that I have some friends from the local (65 miles away) university coming in to help out (at the request of my HS students). That covers this weekend's games, but they can't come out to all the games. That is a lot of gas money to a college student plus they have their own commitments.

AAAAAUUUUUUGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!

Ok, I feel a little better. Any advice?

Having been in the same situation myself, I can empathize with you. The kids are trying to see what they can get away with and it leaves you in the lurch. They also know that due to numbers, you need them more than they need you. Talk to your administration and try to get the support you need. If not, then cover the games as best you can and then look for another work situation where you'll get the support you need. If they are smart, they'll support you, if not hopefully the parents will get involved and believe me, that is the last thing any principal wants to deal with on a Friday afternoon before a basketball tournament.
Good Luck!

[quote="LJVI worked in a rural upper peninsula Michigan school district grades 5-12.

Beginning of the year: HS 34 students, middle school 38 students, I started 115 beginners.

End of year: HS 68 students, middle school 83 students, retained 111 beginners.

Perform skill-appropriate music, not what you want to play or wish they could. Be honest and realistic with yourself. Challenge them in the classroom, not on the stage.

Collect your check.

My three rules for new music educators.

1.) Make friends with the custodians/secretaries. Doughnuts/cookies/genuine conversation.

2.) The principal/admin is not your friend. Be friendly/professional. Don't get confused/fooled/lulled.

3.) Stay out of the teachers lounge. The air is poison in these places.[/quote]

My numbers will go up at the semester and again next fall, I have no doubt about that. Now they won't go up as much as yours as there are less than 150 in the entire school, but they'll go up none the less.

I have a bass player and a set player, will see if I can find a guitar to help cover stuff.

Your rules are the same rules I've been following from the beginning and the same rules I share with the students at the university. Very good rules to live by.

Just deal with the number/mix of players you have. In the grand scheme of things a pep band at a basketball game just isn't a big deal.

When I was in high school back in the dark ages we didn't have a formal presence or requirement for a pep band at basketball games. My high school was bigger than yours but still only about 300 students altogether. Four of us (yes, 4) formed our own pep band. A trumpet, a trombone, a drummer, and me on sousaphone. We showed up at local games, sat in the stands and played pep band stuff. We enjoyed ourselves. As far as I can tell it was appreciated that we were there. At least we never got thrown out.

It was all for fun. No school class credits or anything like that. And no requirement that we be there.

If the band director had "required" us to be there, which as an extracurricular activity it's not clear just how he could have, it would have been (if you'll excuse the expression) a whole different ballgame.

If you have any core players who just enjoy playing, then I suggest that you encourage and support them, let them take on basketball pep band playing as completely volunteer, select their own music and run their own pep band, stay away from them (don't try to be a conductor) while they are playing pep band and let them have fun.

You'll have met the letter of the requirement to supply a pep band. The kids who participate will be doing it because they want to, not because they have to. And they'll learn something they'll never learn with you conducting them; how to just have fun selecting their own music and playing it how they want to.

If your administration cannot understand that then I suggest you find another gig.

My band director made it simple: performances were part of the deal. Missing a performance equalled receiving a failing grade. If they're not going to show anyway, you have nothing to lose by adopting this criteria as part of the band curriculum. Emphasize that band is as much so, if not moreso, a team activity than anything the sports department cares to field.

iiipopes wrote:My band director made it simple: performances were part of the deal. Missing a performance equalled receiving a failing grade. If they're not going to show anyway, you have nothing to lose by adopting this criteria as part of the band curriculum. Emphasize that band is as much so, if not moreso, a team activity than anything the sports department cares to field.

Isn't that an apples to oranges comparison? Do students participating in sports get grades for it? Are sports a class? If you drop out of a sports team do you get a failing grade? Not in any public school I've ever seen or heard of.

If my kid told me he'd fail a class by not participating in extracurricular band activities he/she didn't want to participate in I'd be one angry parent. One looking for other outlets to satisfy my kid's music desires.

And band directors wonder why there is diminishing support for music programs in public schools

When I was teaching public school band, if I tried to fail a kid who didn't show for a performance of an extra- curricular activity (jazz ensemble), I would have the parents and adminstration all over me. It's a tough one. I had a contract that the parents and kids signed at the beginning of the school year. It stated that rehearsals and performances were mandatory. Of course, when push came to shove, it was difficult to enforce. My approach was to make them try and realize the importance of the ensemble as a whole, a sort of team approach. Try and make them not want to miss anything. That's a tough one too, I admit.

Now, if it's the actual concert band where the student receives a grade, then you have some recourse. Early in my career, I would fail a kid who missed a concert without a very good legitimate excuse. I treated the concerts like major exams. I wouldn't necessarily fail the kid for the quarter, but I would give them a "0" for not attendning the concert and I would average that in with their lesson grades and genreal participation grade. In almost all cases, the kid would fail for that quarter. Later in my career, that policy was challenged by parents complaining to the administration. Their argument was that if a student misses a test they have a right to make it up. So, to allow the student to make up the concert, I would assign a research paper. After the 1st 2 kids were assigned the paper, the word was out and nobody missed concerts, unless there was a very good reason. The extra-curricular one is a tough one, however.

I'm glad I don't have to deal with that anymore!!!

Bill Troiano wrote:When I was teaching public school band, if I tried to fail a kid who didn't show for a performance of an extra- curricular activity

Now, if it's the actual concert band where the student receives a grade, then you have some recourse.

Why do you draw such a distinction?

Band in the fall means football games, and possibly contests and parades. Those are the concerts for the marching band. Not to be missed.

Given the small rural setting and the small program, I suspect football is out, and performing at the basketball games would be the equivalent.

All those should have the same priority as spring concerts and contests.

Now, a volunteer ensemble that is not a separate, graded class is different. No grade and it doesn't effect the grades in band. But, you don't show there, you are no longer in the group.


Sort of like required performances in drama classes versus volunteering for a school play/musical.

I, too, teach in a very rural system with kids stretched between too many activities. While I do not have to do basketball games anymore, we do chamber music groups (with regular performances outside of school) and jazz band as extra-curricular groups. The kids know that if they miss a show... they are out of the group. They don't miss.

When I DID do basket ball games, we used these:
http://www.jwpepper.com/2477154.item" target="_blank

They are 4 part with rhythm (midi and mp3 available) and are relatively hip tunes. I ended up arranging things for us, but followed the same simple format. I make multiple transpositions of each of the 4 parts, so whoever I have can cover the book.

I do appreciate the difficulties with the job, further complicated by a small school. PM me if you want to talk shop.

lgb&dtuba wrote:

iiipopes wrote:My band director made it simple: performances were part of the deal. Missing a performance equalled receiving a failing grade. If they're not going to show anyway, you have nothing to lose by adopting this criteria as part of the band curriculum. Emphasize that band is as much so, if not moreso, a team activity than anything the sports department cares to field.

Isn't that an apples to oranges comparison? Do students participating in sports get grades for it? Are sports a class? If you drop out of a sports team do you get a failing grade? Not in any public school I've ever seen or heard of.

If my kid told me he'd fail a class by not participating in extracurricular band activities he/she didn't want to participate in I'd be one angry parent. One looking for other outlets to satisfy my kid's music desires.

And band directors wonder why there is diminishing support for music programs in public schools

Say what you will. My director had over 30 consecutive years of "I" ratings at state contest for large ensembles, is one of the most respected educators in the state, even in his retirement, and we had the largest parent booster programs for a school our size in the state. I actually had friends who, as freshmen in college, were assigned either first chair or honors section without tryouts just because of who they had as a high school band director. His method worked. And it still does for anybody with the courage to do it properly.

lgb&dtuba wrote:

iiipopes wrote:My band director made it simple: performances were part of the deal. Missing a performance equalled receiving a failing grade. If they're not going to show anyway, you have nothing to lose by adopting this criteria as part of the band curriculum. Emphasize that band is as much so, if not moreso, a team activity than anything the sports department cares to field.

Isn't that an apples to oranges comparison? Do students participating in sports get grades for it? Are sports a class? If you drop out of a sports team do you get a failing grade? Not in any public school I've ever seen or heard of.

If my kid told me he'd fail a class by not participating in extracurricular band activities he/she didn't want to participate in I'd be one angry parent. One looking for other outlets to satisfy my kid's music desires.

And band directors wonder why there is diminishing support for music programs in public schools

I think (based on inference, plus my own high school experience) that in iiipopes' situation, band was a graded class. If this is/was the case, then the director is/was within his/her bounds to make whatever amount of performances required, so long as that was made clear on the syllabus. When band (or pep band, or whatever) is extracurricular, then you're right; requirements are little more than suggestions.

What I was trying to do was challenge the idea that all band activities are or should be automatically part of the band class and grade, especially in the situation the op described. In a small school there really aren't enough students to go around for all the sports and other extracurricular activities.

In a small school a band director is lucky to have a viable band at any time. I know that in much of the country high schools have become these huge 3000+ student monstrosities where you really might be able to pretty much pigeon hole students into categories like jocks, band geeks, drama, or whatever, but in smaller schools it's pretty common for students to participate in multiple extracurricular activities.

When I was in high school (early sixties) I was was probably the biggest band geek we had. Concert band, marching band, jazz band, pep band, pit band for twice a year talent shows, dance band. Only concert band and marching band were part of the grade. I also ran cross country track in the fall and played baseball in the springs. Neither of which conflicted with band for the most part. And drove a school bus. (Remember when school bus drivers were students?)

Driving the bus was a handy thing as our band room wasn't even at the high school. It was at the junior high / elementary school and we high school students had to bus over for band class. A bus driver in the band meant no one else had to take care of that particular chore.

But, during football season a number of the band students weren't available due to participating in that sport. Same for basketball. Our band was never bigger than about 30 people and more like 20 during football and basketball seasons. You can guess what a half time show must have been like with only 20 people in the band

Point is, small schools just aren't like big schools and thinking that it's actually a reasonable thing to require all the possible band activities as part of the class can defeat the music program. I truly believe that in a small school a band director is much better off concentrating on bringing along the (likely) half dozen (if he's lucky) musically talented kids he has. If he's a really great and inspiring teacher then he'll build a band program that students actually want to be part of without having to resort to grades to get them to participate.

A carrot is usually more effective than a stick.

My school was, and is a small school. Some would call it mid sized now.

I understand your frustration however,I just want you to know how much I appreciated my band director. I'm sure most of your kids do also! You and most teachers should be paid big "bucks" while hollywood and sports people should be paid minimum wage! I have just started playing again after 40 yrs and enjoy the gift my director gave me. Thank you what you put up with in your profession,hang in there! You are touching so many lives that willpay much fruit i n years to come,God Bless! dentaltuba

dentaltuba wrote: You are touching so many lives that willpay much fruit i n years to come,God Bless! dentaltuba

I have found this to be true. A great many of my former students, who are now all grown up adults, relate how much the band experience has shaped them. It is still very good to hear.