TubeNet

I don't know who is locking my threads but I just want to issue a huge public THANK YOU! Hopefully there is nothing in this one to illicit any kind of a comment at all. It should just go away on its own eventually.

I honestly don't get the whole "locked threads" concept. If people are offended, they should just ignore the topic. The only reason I see for locking a thread would be due to inappropriate material, such as nudity or bad language. We have some members of TubeNet who should indeed be shielded from this. The free exchange of ideas, whoever bad or offensive they may be, seems to be a basic American value. It was even addressed by the framers of our Constitution. On the other hand, this is a free enterprise, so therefore free to set its own rules. Oh, well....

Where I work, it is corporate policy that there is no religious proselytizing. That keeps things calmer in the workplace, as we have a wide variety of strongly held beliefs. There are people on Tubenet who also have conflicting, strongly held beliefs. I'm guessing that some threads are locked because some people feel a need to proselytize, and others find that inappropriate.

MA

Edit: spelling correction.

Mary Ann, Great word of the day.

LOCTITE 567™ PST® THREAD SEALANT

High Temperature
This product has excellent solvent resistance, allow easy assemble, prevents galling, and call withstand temperatures up to 400°F. Excellent for high pressure applications, it locks and seals tapered metal, pipe threads and fittings. Ideal for stainless steel, aluminum. galvanized metal, and other inert metals. Disassembles with hand tools.

I believe there is a distinction to be made, here. If you are standing right in front of me, trying to convince me that your manner of worship is superior to mine, that is one thing. I cannot turn your off, or just look away from you and be done. If you post the same on TubeNet, no on forces me to even look at it, much less read, or pay any attention to it. Only those with sufficient interest in what is posted, ever read anything, here.

Strangelove wrote:I think the problem here is the assumption that TubeNet is a public forum. It isn't. It belongs to Sean (?). As such, he has the right to decide what can be discussed. This is his front porch. He can ask the Mormon's to take a hike if that's what he wants. My $ .02 .

?????

bloke wrote:

MaryAnn wrote:Where I work, it is corporate policy that there is no religious proselytizing. That keeps things calmer in the workplace, as we have a wide variety of strongly held beliefs. There are people on Tubenet who also have conflicting, strongly held beliefs. I'm guessing that some threads are locked because some people feel a need to proselytize, and others find that inappropriate.

MA

Edit: spelling correction.

Rather than Soviet/Chinese/Cuban/North Korean/1930's Germany-style censorship, I find it quite entertaining indeed to encourage folk with "interesting" belief systems to be as specific as possible. (I am particularly fond of the one where the dude reportedly was temporarily presented from above with engraved gold tablets, copied all the stuff down from those tablets down on paper, presented it to a friend to read...who subsequently misplaced/lost it, and then reconstructed the entire manifesto by dictating whilst staring down into an upside-down man's hat with a rock in it. fwiw, their funny underwear and sex-after-death stuff is amusing as well.)

'tis the stuff of which "culture" is made.

bloke "who - particularly since the Political Correctness movement has taken hold, finds that the word 'inappropriate' is quite oft over/mis-used as an inappropriate substitution for the word 'disagreeable'...and that many of those who claim to not worship at any altars actually do so after all..., even though many seem to encounter some difficulty owning up to it."

Well said, my friend.

In the interest of sending my love to all my fellow tubists (and not to proselytize)...

Shabbat Shalom!

knuxie wrote:The right to free speech is not supported here.

The Constitution says the Congress can't make laws hindering freedom of speech. It says nothing about the private owner of a private resource making rules and regulations about what can and cannot be said on *his* private resource. That's the American Constitution BTW. Not sure of other countries but the ability to control the access to one's own personal property is one of the hallmarks of freedom.

The owner of this board, IMHO, is supporting your right to speech by even allowing people to post and read here. Right now, there is *no way* a person could contact and have interchange with tuba players around the world without TubeNet.

I'll reply, as I have been the one to lock a few threads lately. There are a few moderators here, and Sean himself, and I think I am the one who locked the threads in question.

This forum is not a medium for "free speech," as someone else mentioned before. It is a private resource. Think of it as a private residence. You cannot come into my home and say whatever you want... Well, you CAN, but I can also ask you to leave. If you do not leave, I can force you to leave. Think of this board (and many other boards) in the same manner and you will be closer to the truth of it.

It's not an issue of censoring what people SHOULD and SHOULD NOT talk about or think about. It's about guiding the conversation and keeping the focus of this place. People can, and will, talk and talk and talk... and tangent and tangent and tangent... nonstop for days and days on end. Is it BAD?? Nope, it's just not gonna happen here. This place has a focus: Tuba, Euphonium, music, music education, etc etc etc... I won't touch almost anything along those lines (as long as everything remains CIVIL).

But when the discussion goes too political, too religious, to WHATEVER (including focusing on ONE user [james] and what he/she needs to succeed in life [there is a PM feature...]), then ya, I will lock it.

That's my motivation. I don't get offended or upset, nor do I think anyone else should (though I am betting someone will--almost every human utterance upsets SOMEONE). I'm just trying to maintain the focus.

There is a place on the internet to talk about religion--GO THERE. Politics--GO THERE. Tiger Woods--GO THERE.

Tuba? Music? Come here!!

the elephant wrote:"Meanwhile, Aunt Martha, having decided to take a tramp through the woods, is lying in a ditch at the edge of town... "

B.F. Pierce - American Philosopher

Sounds like Martha is the tramp here.....

Bob Kolada wrote:

the elephant wrote:"Meanwhile, Aunt Martha, having decided to take a tramp through the woods, is lying in a ditch at the edge of town... "
B.F. Pierce - American Philosopher

Sounds like Martha is the tramp here.....

Good one, Bob! But try to stay focused.

Bob Kolada wrote:

the elephant wrote:"Meanwhile, Aunt Martha, having decided to take a tramp through the woods, is lying in a ditch at the edge of town... "

B.F. Pierce - American Philosopher

Sounds like Martha is the tramp here.....

You don't know for sure she's lying - she could be telling the truth!

Strangelove wrote:Just like in the the broadcast media, the only folks here who really should have input into what is allowed are those who chip in to cover the costs. If I had "sponsor" under my name I think I'd have the right to discuss the rules with the owner. Since I don't, I'm happy to stay within the boundaries.

As my late wife used to tell the kids.... "It's okay to color outside the lines"

Dean wrote:It's about guiding the conversation and keeping the focus of this place.

I've seen a web forum, essentially dedicated to an obvious practical topic as TubeNet is, but where for historical reasons there's also a commitment to providing a `club' environment that supports off topic conversation, with no boundaries on the subject matter.

So there was enough politics and religion (which created a lot of friction, that being essential to their nature), that a new separate sub-forum was dedicated to those topics and they were banned from the general off-topic sub-forum. The politics & religion sub-forum is more or less dominated by one very energetic debater type, and a half dozen guys who tend to agree with him across the board. Since no one in their right mind would have anything to do with that kind of discussion, they're mostly reduced to clucking over news of the day, as reported from the ideological web sites of their persuasion.

The result is not really much of a `free exchange of ideas', and it's endless trouble for the moderators. TubeNet is not missing anything at all, and the best way to make it better would be for people to seriously take their political & religious stuff elsewhere.

There are times when everyone is up for a good-humored mention of dangerous topics, but other times when even a hint of those topics brings out combatants tooth and claw. Eventually, these topics nearly always venture into tooth-and-claw territory, and the result of that is that people end up battling each other over issues unrelated to their status as tuba-playing brethren. When I am at a band party, I don't bring up these sorts of topics, because my relationship with my band mates is more important to me than demonstrating my debating skills. In debates, one argues artfully (and ruthlessly) to earn points, with no real expectation that anyone is actually persuaded.

One-on-one is another matter. In those cases, people don't debate because there is no audience, and people tend to discuss things in good faith because they want the other person to believe what they believe. When the audience is there, the temptation is nearly overwhelming to perform for it.

So, I suppose I find myself on the opposite side of this topic from my good friend TubaRay, with whom I have had hundreds, maybe thousands, of such one-on-one discussions.

In the end, I have no problem with discussions being halted by the firmly raised hand--STOP!--even when I come to the threads after they are locked and go away wanting to engage some fallacious point. When I'm having discussions on those topics in person, I can read the other person and know where to draw the line--where further words from me will be less rather than more likely to be persuasive to my point. Since that line differs for everyone, finding it in a public forum is impossible. The public forum thus becomes a tool for disagreement rather than persuasion. As I have grown older, I have realized that debate is for entertainment, and I find myself much more interested in persuasion. Believe me, that conclusion has come hard.

Rick "supporting the full discretion and authority of the moderators and opposing too many written-down rules" Denney

bloke wrote:
(I am particularly fond of the one where the dude reportedly was temporarily presented from above with engraved gold tablets, copied all the stuff down from those tablets down on paper, presented it to a friend to read...who subsequently misplaced/lost it, and then reconstructed the entire manifesto by dictating whilst staring down into an upside-down man's hat with a rock in it. fwiw, their funny underwear and sex-after-death stuff is amusing as well.)

'tis the stuff of which "culture" is made.

IMHO, discussing faith requires both the head and the heart, making this forum (and the workplace) pretty unsuited for the topic most of the time. But Joe, don't diss the clairvoyant corsets. Them things are comfy!

(BTW - I agree with Rick.)

bloke wrote: As a person of *faith, I *know that there is a creator, and I *know that the creator knows me, cares about me, and cares that I acknowledge its existence.

That reminds me of what somebody (who was considered a "crazy liberal" by many of his contemporaries) a long time ago answered when he was asked something to the effect of what is the most important rule.

bloke wrote: Without this stuff, human life on earth would be pretty dull (and there would also be fewer gigs ). Finally (except for some, such as the let's-confiscate-and-waste-multi-trillions-of-dollars-to-fix-a-non-problem:global-warming religion and the we'll-blow-you-up-unless-you-think-like-us religion) most of this stuff (whether approaching "real" or completely "buffalo feathers") is mostly harmless...

bloke "...and certainly nothing to get worked-up over"

I honestly believe that stuff can also be a useful vehicle to help people see beyond their own lives and learn how to look out for others. (Like any good thing, though, that stuff can also be misused by more self-interested people. I also seem to remember that somebody, a long time ago, saved his harsh words for that particular group of self-interested people.)

.

.