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I've reached a point where I'm going to get rid of the old Saltillo tile in my kitchen. Not only do I hate that tile, I hate ALL tile in kitchens. Last week was the last time that something hopped out of the fridge and shattered into approximately twelve billion tiny glass shards intermixed with was had been a nearly full jar of jelly. So....I'm wanting to do some kind of wood-like thing, either real wood or laminate or "whateveer." Something softer, that will not result in the shards that cause me to see red.

I've had two installers come over; one of those appears extremely competent and has a well-thought-out approach. He said that he suggests laminate because of the wear factor (good laminate as opposed to Costco stuff) but glues it together for kitchens even though it is snap fit, because if it is not glued when you spill liquids on it then it will absorb them and buckle. I can't quite remember why he liked laminate better than wood. But others have said don't use laminate because of the buckling problem; I presume theirs was not glued together. Either floor he puts in (wood or laminate) would float, so that's not an issue. He even pointed out that the sections between the kitchen and the foyer should *not* be glued to each other as they will expand differently and would pull apart anyway; he would put a T something in between.

Suggestions? Info? comments? Educate me!

BTW, I am planning to do it at a 45 degree angle. I know that is more material and installation cost, but lengthwise would make the whole thing appear to be a bowling alley (long stretch) and crosswise simply would look stupid.

MA

To do the job right, you need to rip out all the base cabinets, install a nail down 3/4 inch solid hardwood floor and then reinstall the cabinets 3/4 higher on the wall. Having discussed that method with my wife, we decided........ no way. On the onther end of the spectrum, the 3/8 inch Pergo or Pergo like floors float, but need to be glued together as you mentioned because they are suceptible to swelling if moisture gets underneath. Not such a pleasant thought for a kitchen. However, there is a third alternative which we opted for. I used an engineered 5/8 thick laminated solid wood floor sold by Lowes and installed it myself. It is recomended for basements with a membrane under it so the water issues are not as bad. I was able to lay it right up to the cabinet base and cover the gap with trim. I was also able to have enough room to get the dishwasher out for service or replacement which is the reason you have to move the cabinets for the 3/4 inch stuff. We used that floor for 7 years and the it still looked great when we sold the house.

MaryAnn wrote:.......Last week was the last time that something hopped out of the fridge and shattered into approximately twelve billion tiny glass shards intermixed with was had been a nearly full jar of jelly. So....I'm wanting to do some kind of wood-like thing, either real wood or laminate or "whateveer." Something softer, that will not result in the shards that cause me to see red.....

I have state-of-the-art ceramic tiles in my kitchen that break and absorb the shock of things hitting them. That's right!... every darned tile in front of the fridge, the stove, the dishwasher, and the sink have been damaged due to stuff being dropped!

TubaTinker wrote: I have state-of-the-art ceramic tiles in my kitchen that break and absorb the shock of things hitting them. That's right!... every darned tile in front of the fridge, the stove, the dishwasher, and the sink have been damaged due to stuff being dropped!

Great idea! I think I like linoleum better, though. Linoleum is somewhat back in fashion, lots of color choices, and it's deep - you can scar it pretty bad with no effect on color. I wouldn't take for granted that a floating floor is the best choice.

There is a relatively new product that a friend had installed in his kitchen which has much appeal. It is made by, I believe, Congoleum, but several others also make something akin to this. It is a very thick [@1/4"] high-density vinyl composition, possibly with some other components for wear. It is quite stiff and durable. It comes in 16" squares like tile, is glued down with it's proprietary mastic, and, the nice part, it looks for all the world like ceramic tile and there is a special sanded grout of silicone which is applied very much like traditional grout and sells the look of ceramic flooring.Maintenance is minimal and it is softer for those dropped dishes. Price is quite reasonable. Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of the product, but any good flooring supplier [Notice I did not specify big-box traps like Home depot, Lowes, etc.] will be able to point you in the right direction.
Hope this helps.

I am a big fan of cork flooring in the kitchen. Be sure to use a quality sealer to keep out the inevitable spills. It's relatively soft, it's warm, and it looks GOOD.

shovelingtom wrote:I am a big fan of cork flooring in the kitchen. Be sure to use a quality sealer to keep out the inevitable spills. It's relatively soft, it's warm, and it looks GOOD.

I put some cork down this summer, glue-down tiles. Afterward I wished I had prepped the subfloor better - any irregularity really shows through. This would be an advantage of a floating installation, but the vendor had a floating display floor, and I didn't much care for it - you could feel the float, so to speak. We got a solid pattern, no veneer, so if anything has to be taken off the top surface, the pattern won't change.

Kitchen is a tough space. Pots and pans flying, grime & cleaning, big floor-standing appliances like ranges etc., a lot of traffic in general. Ours is Douglas fir, that's how they did things around here 100 years ago, but it's pretty shot and it has been sanded down to about the limit. Interesting to hear that cork has been working for you - how long?

We've had the 'old school' glue up laminate in our living room for 12+ years now and it has held up extremely well. The glue also acts as a sealant - if a pet urinates on a click together floor the liquid will seep into the cracks and cause swelling - within hours. This isn't a problem on our glue up floor.

We put the 'click type' laminate in the kid's rooms and in the hall several years ago and it's OK I would not put it in a room that has heavy use - If it has to be replaced I will probably go and find the glue up type again or go with an engineered hardwood (our house is built on an elevated slab so a true wood floor is not a good option ). From our experience the laminates in prominent home centers have a thinner wear layer than those available in flooring stores.

After our youngest gets most of the way through high school we will consider replacing the vinyl in the kitchen with either a high end vinyl (not home center grade), tile or glue up laminate.

Another thing to consider is that because of the way the laminate floats, it is a much louder floor than a non-floating floor. We've become accustomed to it - but it takes a little while.

Good luck!

Rick

The laminate flooring is very tough. The wear layer includes a fine aluminum oxide powder that is extremely hard and resists wear (and also does a number on the miter-saw blades). The material itself is inherently waterproof--after putting the stuff down in my motorhome, I left a piece sitting on the driveway to see how it would fare under continuous outdoor exposure. It took a year before I noticed any significant moisture penetration. Buckling? Not in our kitchen, where the Pergo has been in place for at least a dozen years, showing not even a hint of wear.

The snap-together discount stuff we put in the motorhome breaks all the rules and shows no issues whatsoever. The moisture and temperature variation in the motorhome is extreme, and there has never been a hint of a problem in a couple of years. Laminate flooring must fully float, however, which means do not nail it down to the floor--anywhere. The sub-floor of the motorhome is not level to the extent recommended by the manufacturer, and I shimmed it in spots a little but otherwise just put the stuff down and let it be. One thing I like about it in that application: I don't have to damage anything to take the stuff back up.

Where the glued joints might be a real advantage is in preventing drip-through to a basement, though I expect that would only be an issue for a big spill that is not cleaned up immediately.

Use real wood molding around the edges, however. Do not use the stuff the laminate people sell--it is not nearly as waterproof as the laminate itself and the moisture will cause it to lose its shape.

The only problem I have with the laminate is that it resounds with a somewhat higher pitch when you walk on it with hard heels, compared to real wood.

In contrast, the real wood floor in our living room needs to be refinished, which is a bigger job than ripping up and replacing laminate, even if the laminate is installed "on the bias".

Laminate is definitely less likely to break things than ceramic tile. I have dropped heavy glass tumblers without them breaking, and also filled glass jars, often enough to be quite sure the laminate is more resilient and forgiving than ceramic. The wear layer on laminate is very tough, but it rides on a more resilient laminate panel, and that rides on a soft 1/8" foam pad. It is also easier to stand on.

Prepping the floor after removing the tile will be a big job. It must be really level for the laminate (though not as smooth as is needed for linoleum, vinyl flooring, or cork flooring). I would definitely give it a way to flow independently around a doorway opening.

Rick "who likes how fast it goes down once the sub-floor is prepped" Denney

What Rick says about the prep is crucial: the floor must be quite flat, with almost no humps and bumps.Low spots can be "flashed" by the installer, but high spots must be reduced some way. Don't confuse the early product in laminates with today's generation. They quickly found out about the substrate blowing up and redesigned it. Also, as Rick said, the wear layer is excellent. There is a great difference, however, between the big box stores' product [even with the same brand name] and those of real flooring suppliers. Well worth the small difference [if any] to upgrade for a kitchen, den, etc, as opposed to a motorhome.

Thanks for all the information. I had forgotten about the linoleum option; around here since tile is so popular, using linoleum that looks like tile but doesn't act like tile, is something to consider. I'm not fond of linoleum that looks like wood, though.

The second guy I had over to give me an estimate thought about it for a day or so and then said the job was too much for him; he said he wouldn't be able to give me the kind of guarantee that a big box installer would. Well...I would not use the stuff I can get at a big box store.

The guy who seemed quite competent made a point of telling me that his estimate would be higher than others because he would make sure the floor was flat (not level, specifically, but flat) before he did any installation. My foyer is an add-on and you can feel the bump where the slabs meet underneath it. I pointed that out to him so he knows what he's getting into.

I'll look at cork too (but here we'd rather it were cool than warm;) and see what the material cost will be for various laminates. The labor cost was over $2k for prep and installation of about 300 sq feet of laminate, with the guy who seemed to have a really good idea what he was doing. He does not guarantee anything other than materials and workmanship though, so if it buckles even with being glued, I'm stuck. However....I always clean stuff up right away. And if the diswasher leaks overnight I guess that's an issue for the insurance company, not the installer.

MA

bloke wrote:Has anyone installed that bamboo flooring?

In about three weeks we'll be putting bamboo in our kitchen. I can post picture when it's done if anyone's interested.
http://ambientbamboo.com/product/4/Clas ... Horizontal