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A some what moral question for the TNFJ if you please

I have a number of my students who will be recording auditions for junior high and senior high honor bands/choirs this fall. However, I have a couple of them that no matter how hard they work, and they are busting butt to get better and be ready, their auditions just won't be up to par. How do you deal with those situations when they arise?

I've been told by a few folks that they just tell the students they aren't ready and then don't let them record the audition. I see this as having the potential to run off some very dedicated students who are and will be the core of my small program.

Others have said they let the students record and then just don't send in the CD's. I see this one as being a moral problem lying to the students. On the flip side I also see this as not wasting the time of the otherwise busy person who has to listen to all of the auditions sent in.

What would you do?

As always, thanks for the advice.

First, I just have a few questions about this:

- Would taking the time to record and submit these students' tapes be a serious imposition and substantial usage of your resources?

and

- If these students did not pass their auditions, would that in any way impinge you, your band program, or the school?

If the answer to these is "No", then I suggest that you absolutely support the students and do all that you can to help them record their tapes and submit them. Motivated music students seem to be so hard to find now, so I don't see why that motivation should be suppressed.

If the answer to these questions was "Yes", I would still suggest doing all that you can to get those tapes made and sent.

As I'm learning now (first-year college student), there are more things to aim for when taking an audition than just winning the position. I recently took an audition where I basically knew (from the other guys audition for the same spot) that I was not going to win. I took the audition, though, to go through the experience that is an audition. There is no feeling like the feeling of being in an audition, so, if one wishes to continue onward and face more auditions, as much time in the "hot seat" as possible would be a very beneficial thing, I believe. Of course, even if one may know that they aren't going to get the job, the zenith of effort should be put forth.

It would not hurt my time or resources and I am helping and encouraging anybody who wants to try to audition for stuff. What I was throwing out there was more what I've heard from other folks and not neccesarily what I do.

I will help them and record their auditions ALWAYS. I guess my more specific question would be, do you send in those recordings that you know are not going to make it or do you hold them back? In the years I've been doing this I haven't been put in that dilema yet as either the students had a good audition recording or the students themselves decided they weren't ready to audition and didn't record. I may never actually be put in this particular dilema I'm just trying to start a different discussion to see what others have done or would do in a similar situation.

Learning failure is an important (if not the most important) part of the learning success.

I think it's unacceptable to not submit the tapes. Perhaps if this were an audition for a premier military band, then yeah, I wouldn't want to waste the adjucator's time. But these are kids. This is about them, not the adjudicators. Those judges should know, and expect, going into this that only a few kids are going to make it. Someone has to come in 1st. And someone has to come in last.

I've been on the other side of the table as an adjudicator for middle-school all-state band. Some students really were not ready, and realistically didn't have a shot (40+ auditions for 6 spots). But damned if it wasn't cool to see them there playing their audition anyway.

Maybe talk to the kids in a positive way to remind them how few spots there are and how many people are trying out for them. Don't hide the reality, but don't kill the fun and motivation of an audition too.

We face a similar situation in our regional band auditions. We have kids coming in to audition that are CLEARLY not prepared. This does waste the time of the judge, and the time of every other kid in line in the hallway. I do not allow my students to go to these auditions if they are not prepared.

However, it is not the same with a recorded audition. I would send in a CD of a kid who was not ready. As a judge, you can tell very quickly if they are unprepared and just stop the playback. There are no other kids waiting in line. The recorder manufactures and retailers make money and blank CD sales keep our economy humming along... not to mention the postage for mailing it in!

I would never tell a student I was sending in an audition recording and not do so.

By all means have them audition. Prepare them in a diplomatic way that auditions are tough, and not everybody is selected. All the reasons said above are good.

It's also a good way to prepare them for the real world of job interviewing. Not everyone who applies gets the job.

But here's the important part: make sure that when they don't get it that their personal self esteem and importance to the school band program are reinforced, so they know they have a place and are valued for the persons they are. This might encourage them to work harder to audition again next year and in the meantime give their best to the school band they are enrolled in so they grow and mature along the way, properly learning how to deal with adversity.

This is called helping children grow up to be adults and deal with real life the proper manner.

I prefer the live auditions too. The HS all-state and one of the major universities do live auditions everybody else, including the JH all state groups, use recorded.

goodgigs wrote:

bloke wrote: I believe another thing about a "live" audition is that the STUDENT somehow must GET THEIR REAR-END TO THE AUDITION. Even if a bunch of students are traveling together in a van or bus, each individual student had to get up REALLY EARLY on THAT Saturday morning and show up down at the school with THEIR instrument and THEIR mouthpiece and THEIR music.

HOW DARRRRRRE YOU
This would requier personal responsability !!
Your obvoiusly not from a California school distrect !

Personal responsability isn't too keen a thing here either. I had a parent pull her precious out of band last year 2 weeks before the concert because her precious didn't turn in a couple of practice logs and her grade dropped a little bit and because I didn't caudle her precious enough. Made me sick to my stomach to know that I had to explain to the rest of the band (all 6 of them) why they were now down a person and missing a part in their music The rest of that group worked their little tails off to make up for the difference and they did a good job. I was so proud of them and made sure to tell them so.

I say be honest with them. Have them play for you and determine with them then if you will record their audition. Encourage them not to be afraid to ask for help. If you have a university near by, see if some of the students from there can help them out. That would give the college students some experience in teaching and it would help your students. It might even motivate them.
Just my thoughts.

Alfred Lord Tennyson wrote:
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

Wayne Gretzky wrote: You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

Vincent Van Gogh wrote: What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?

et al.

There's a lot to be gained from trying your best and failing, so long as you understand the risks. Even children understand this concept. Every audition I've ever won or lost started with me saying "Well, they gotta take somebody." A number of variables including judges' aesthetics, the competition getting the flu, or a lucky bounce, could produce surprises.

Not trying would be a damn shame.

I believe I completely understand the concerns of the original post. I have a couple of things to say in response:

1) If a student has worked hard, I would not discourage their attempt at the
audition. If there is a lack of effort, that is when I would try to intervene.
When I judge these competitions, I try to be patient if I believe the student
has worked hard. Sometimes, however, it is obvious they made little or no
effort. I find this tests my patience.

2) When working with students in preparation for such an event, I stress the
importance of the preparation. While the effort and desire to succeed
are important, to me they are not the most important. Much can be gained in
the preparation process.

I further agree with what was stated concerning learning about success and failure. If we are guaranteed to succeed, we cannot truly succeed. The possibility of failure makes that possible.

bloke wrote:

knuxie wrote:1. Focus on the process. Make sure they get a copy.

2. Don't blow smoke. If they don't have a shot, why do they need false hopes? Refer to No. 1.

Ken

That just inspired another thought...I hope not a "Jack Handy" one. How 'bout...

"I'm not sure that you're experienced enough to make it this year, but I want you to learn how to make a recording and submit it to a competition. We're going to keep a extra copy of your submission here, so that NEXT YEAR we can listen to it again and you will see how much you have progressed in just one year's time."

DING! DING! DING! Folks, we have a winner here. Combines everything talked about on the thread into one easy interchange.

iiipopes wrote:

bloke wrote:"I'm not sure that you're experienced enough to make it this year, but I want you to learn how to make a recording and submit it to a competition. We're going to keep a extra copy of your submission here, so that NEXT YEAR we can listen to it again and you will see how much you have progressed in just one year's time."

DING! DING! DING! Folks, we have a winner here. Combines everything talked about on the thread into one easy interchange.

Bloke's interchange is a good interchange, but I'm not quite sure if it's an easy interchange. That's something that I think only Mr. Chadtuba can determine.