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Well, Joe, you might just be proud of me on this one....

For the Brass Tech class (brass methods, whatever you want to call the class for music ed majors that focuses on brass instruments) that I teach, there is NO required purchase of a book. The resource I use is put up on the required BlackBoard interface as a pdf. Our trombone teacher did the bulk of writing it, and I put a few tweaks in to reflect how I teach the class.
In other words, this is just about as cheap a class as one can take here at UNCG.....

Yes, these are contemptable practices. But how about the "planned obsolescence" of computers where the hardware is perfectly fine but the message keeps coming up "your browser is no longer supported"?
Or, when you visit a cell phone store to get something for your well-functioning cellphone the "representative" first says "Oh, you have an old phone" because it wasn't sold within the last six months?

Wow. What a racket.

Rick Oakes wrote:Yes, these are contemptable practices. But how about the "planned obsolescence" of computers where the hardware is perfectly fine but the message keeps coming up "your browser is no longer supported"?

The reason many websites require newer browsers is due to security. But, there is nothing stopping an 8 yr old computer from running an 8 day old browser.

In many cases the software used by the students is dictated by the college as a whole (ALL computers on campus are PCs and use microsoft products) because of some stupid back alley agreement between colleges and computer magnates.

I do tell students to use openoffice because I use it and it's GREAT and FREE and compatible with MS office formats.

I also tell students to use blanksheetmusic.net for their blank staff paper needs b/c they can print all they like for free at our library. I know it's a small expense to save on, but it all adds up.

I try to teach without textbooks as much as I can, especially for brass methods, etc where a .pdf like Dr. Askew uses would be appropriate.

When a text is required, like in Music Theory, I get the word out about the texts early so students can try to find them on the cheap, and I never move to a newer edition until the bookstore tells me I have to. This is to help the students save money without them resorting to renting the textbooks, which is the newest scam that I really don't like. If I require a text for a class, it's because I think it is a good resource, and as such, ought to be saved for after college (gasp!) when it might be needed as a reference later (double gasp!). If a book is really superfluous enough to not be needed again after my class is over, I'll try to simply put it on reserve in the library and have the students read it there, free of charge.

For all of my classes for majors, I evaluate books (and other materials) not only on how well I can teach using it, but how it will be of use down the road to the student.


Still, I feel that it is necessary to at the very least have a few books on reserve that cover the materials studied in class. Some students, for one reason or another, NEED to read a book to "get" certain concepts.
I had a theory professor once who was a fair composer and a fantastic researcher, but when I took his post-tonal theory class (focusing primarily on set theory and the like) I would listen to him lecture, and think "OK, I get this", then proceed to fail miserably at he homework. This pattern repeated for a few weeks, and even seeking outside help during his office hours did me little good. There was no required reading for the class but an "additional reading" book, the Straus, was on reserve at the library. I finally resigned myself to a long weekend with the Straus and a lot of coffee, and I had little trouble after that. That episode sticks with me and I am always careful to have good supplementary materials available for students, ESPECIALLY if I don't use a text in class.

I'm surprised that a classroom situation would call for adoption of a `word processor' standard, whether it be Word or whatever.

I mean, I know people send Word documents to each other all the time, but I thought that was just thoughtless/ignorant/oblivious. They aren't sent to me because we're collaborating on the document and it's my turn to do some editing, it's just so I can look at it - so it should have been converted to a standard external document format via the "Export" function.

Probably under the "File" menu, if that's how your application's menus are organized, you'll find this Export option that lets you choose from among - who knows, PDF, RTF, plain text, I can't imagine as I don't have any word processing software. Simple, more or less standard formats that just about anyone's computer can display or print - that's the whole point - and, as a bonus, they're also usually more compact and robust for sending via email.

It requires thought. Microsoft et al. prefer that you send the internal application format, because that helps keep their application a "universal" de facto standard, so you have to take an extra step to export it, you have to select a suitable export format, you have to ignore their little warnings about formatting that might not survive the conversion. Enough challenges here that I am not surprised it's beyond some of my musician colleagues even though I've told them I can't read that s--t, but in an academic situation it seems preferable to obliging students to buy software to read a simple document.

And a 13" black and white can play the same shows as an HDTV, too.

I'm with Dr. AsKew here. I used a brass methods text once. Spent two days going over the things with which I didn't agree, and decided never to use one again. My whole curriculum is posted online in PDF format.

For my Aural Skills class the students have to purchase two texts, but they are good for "at least" two years (more if they don't practice!), so the cost isn't so bad. But, the whole "release a new edition every 2-3 years" racket is terrible. In six years, one of the two texts has gone through three editions, and the other has gone through two. One of those changes actually introduced substantive, helpful, and even necessary changes, but the others have only been useless changes like going to lighter, lesser-quality paper (while simultaneously increasing the cost). One of the earlier posters mentioned that the bookstores and universities push us to go to the new editions, which is absolutely true. While I encourage the students to purchase books from Amazon, eBay, or wherever they can find them cheap, they still use the bookstore because they can use whatever remaining scholarship or student loan money they have there.

It's a racket, but in many cases the 'fessers are powerless to do anything about it, unfortunately.

Micah "tried to keep the old edition but they wouldn't let me" Everett

Bloke shud be predsidunt. then I can has go to kolij tiem free

I have found Open Office to be buggy and slow as molasses in January. I use Microsoft Word '03 because of one feature, and one feature only - in my line of work - Bookfold. File button, Page set up, pages - mulitple pages, blue arrow in the box and on the drop down menu select "Book Fold." Open Office does not have this, and my favorite Word Perfect is unable to do this. Otherwise I whole heartedly agree with El Bloke.

There is (or was) a fascinating video lecture on the UCTV website about the results of an international math and science test and what the successful countries did differently than the unsuccessful ones(namely the US). The successful countries used very small textbooks (<100 pages) and covered one subject at a time in depth. In contrast, the US uses the worlds largest textbooks and classes that use them repeatedly skim over the same subjects year after year in a vain effort to get through the massive texts. They made some excuses for the US textbook companies, saying that since curriculum is decided at the school board level they have to make giant textbooks to cover every possible variation in curriculum. Of course they didn't look into how school boards are sold these various crazy curriculum ideas that are coincidentally only available in the very newest edition mega-textbooks. You can call it a scheme, a racket, or a business model, but beyond the expense it's quite harmful to the education system. They were talking about public school textbooks, but its pretty much the same people and the same business model in the college textbook business.

I love open office, but I find that the spreadsheet makes a lot of math errors, as bad as 2+2=5. I love that the powerpoint equivalent is called "OpenOffice Impress". For word processing I tend to use Wordpad. Notepad is a little too barren, and Word has too many features like the obnoxious "You appear to be making a list. I have now rearranged your page so you'll never figure out how to fix it." And then you can't figure out how to disable the "helpful feature" until you can figure out exactly what microsoft decided to call it. They never call it anything obvious like "page scrambler" or "day ruiner".

Recently I decided I wanted to do some multitrack recording, and tried the various recording programs out there. I spent half an hour with the Cubase manual trying to figure out how to record a midi track without success, so I got rid of that program. Protools turned out to be as unstable as ever. Then I found an obscure program called multitrack studio that had all the important functions but with a much better user interface i.e. a horizontal mixer so you dont need two screens. Cubase and protools were each about 500 megabytes, but multitrack studio that could do all the same things was only 4 megabytes It's the perfect example of how bad computer programming has gotten, where you can have programs with similar functionality that differ in size by a factor of 100. Textbooks are no better, differing in size by a factor of ten, with the largest having the least usefulness.

-Eric

Shockwave wrote:The successful countries used very small textbooks (<100 pages) and covered one subject at a time in depth. In contrast, the US uses the worlds largest textbooks and classes that use them repeatedly skim over the same subjects year after year in a vain effort to get through the massive texts.

You're talking about K-12 education, bloke is talking about college. Those two markets are *hugely* different, they may look similar. But "from the inside", they are way more different than similar. Anyway, you're probably talking about "Singapore Math," which uses several small books instead of one huge book. That method words for some kids, and doesn't work for others. A more significant issue, however, is that the parents in Singapore care and are involved in their kids' education. Teachers in Singapore are highly qualified and highly paid. Education is important and (likely) enforced in ways that we couldn't really do in the US.

Besides this, the US books are changing, and the US market is changing. Math education is not as static as it might appear -- it is changing, and certainly a lot different already than I was in school. I should know, I've been working in the math educational publishing industry for the last 8 years.

bloke wrote:1/ Stop demanding that your kolij stoounts use Microsoft WORD. WORD (2007 in particular) is TERRIBLE. "Open Office" is FREE (that's: $0.00) and is GOOD. Download "Open Office" on to YOUR OWN computer and require that your stoounts use THIS (FREE) program.

2/ Stop jacking around with PowerPoint. The way that 99% of you use it, you could do what you do with a text document and (again) sending PowerPoint junk to your stoounts requires that they have the Microsoft WORD array (an expensive, sloppy, oversized, and BAD program) installed in their computers.

3/ Stop writing (or using "colleagues' ") mediocre textbooks and demanding that your stoounts buy them for $125 or more. If these bird cage liners were not required for your course, fewer than 100 of them would sell worldwide for $5. The new gimmick that you've created of putting an individual log-in code on each book (and requiring stoounts to interface the textbook with a normally high-$$-per-year website with a 4-month code-allowed subscription - where they must glean supplemental information and take all of the course tests) is despicable! It is a transparent ruse to force each of your stoounts to buy a BRAND NEW $125 crummy textbook, rather than getting a perfectly good USED one for an AFFORDABLE price on eBay, craigslist, or somewhere else.

4/ When you DO use mainstream textbooks for your classes, don't keep it's title a secret until the first day of class (forcing your stoounts to scramble into the university's bookstore to pay full friggin' price). Again, NAME the textbook that you're going to use well ahead of the first day of class, and allow your stoounts (at least those who must pay for their own things, as opposed to those who are privileged to have the gubmunt buy all of their things) to find the best price for those books.

5/ Publishers, quit coming out with a "new" edition of your mainstream textbooks every two or three years. Its completely obvious what you're up to. There's nothing "new" about "Renaissance art" or "elementary calculus". Those 1989 editions will do just fine, except for the fact that there are too many of them floating around out there "used" to suit YOU...and university bookstores are MORE THAN DELIGHTED to require the "latest, most up-to-date" edition.

Attention college and university students:

1/ College and university computer labs are readily available for your use and have all programs installed that you will need to complete your assignment. Many are open (and staffed) for 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Of course, you are welcome to purchase any materials that you feel the need to, but these resources are included in your (exorbitantly high) tuition. Please take advantage of them. Alternatively, download any freeware that you think would be helpful to your studies. No, we probably do not use it on computers in our offices because we are often limited to installing software given to us by the campus computer cops.

2/ Lots of you like pretty pictures and prefer that faculty give you or post online the notes you should have taken in class. As a result, many faculty have chosen to use a program called PowerPoint to convey graphical and textual material to you that you should have received in class. While PowerPoint may seem obtrusive to many, the program is installed on most (if not all) of the computers on campus referenced in point 1 immediately above. PowerPoint slide shows can easily be converted into a .pdf document using the program itself or any other number of "freeware" programs. Converting a .ppt slideshow to .pdf will allow you to view the slideshow without having to install PowerPoint. Ask the computer lab staffers how to do this. These resources are included in your (exorbitantly high) tuition.

3/ Textbooks are expensive. Most of us would rather not force you to buy the $125 20lb tome, but according to the curriculum developers, we are required to use this in our class. Also, sorry about the whole pay-per-semester website thing. Apparently, the new generation of students ("the millenials") demands instant access, instant feedback, lots of colorful pictures, and instant gratification. The only way we can provide these instant resources for you is to require you to use the website of the publisher.

4/ If you can find a better price for the textbooks we require you to use, by all means buy the textbook at the lower price. Just tell us during the first week of class that your textbook (which you purchased for less than half of what the university bookstore is selling it for) hasn't arrived yet. We'll be more than happy to let you photocopy (at the cost of your time and expense, and only when it is convenient for us) the necessary pages out of our book until yours arrives. This does not, however, mean that you can just "borrow" our copy indefinitely.

5/ Publishers can really suck some times. Please don't blame us when the publishers of a text book come out with a new version. We really can't do anything about it.

SRanney wrote:While PowerPoint may seem obtrusive to many, the program is installed on most (if not all) of the computers on campus referenced in point 1 immediately above. PowerPoint slide shows can easily be converted into a .pdf document using the program itself or any other number of "freeware" programs. Converting a .ppt slideshow to .pdf will allow you to view the slideshow without having to install PowerPoint.

Campus computer cops installed Powerpoint on faculty's computer so he could do this conversion.

Donn wrote:

SRanney wrote:While PowerPoint may seem obtrusive to many, the program is installed on most (if not all) of the computers on campus referenced in point 1 immediately above. PowerPoint slide shows can easily be converted into a .pdf document using the program itself or any other number of "freeware" programs. Converting a .ppt slideshow to .pdf will allow you to view the slideshow without having to install PowerPoint.

Campus computer cops installed Powerpoint on faculty's computer so he could do this conversion.

PowerPoint VIEWER is also a free download:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/d ... 4eeb832823

As a retired 'fesser, I must admit that Bloke is on target with his [5].
In my later teaching years, my reference materials and lab experiment manuals were available either on line or furnished free to the students.
SRanney also has some good points. Like it or not, many schools have standardized on Word if not the Office suite.

SRanney wrote: 1/ College and university computer labs are readily available for your use and have all programs installed that you will need to complete your assignment. Many are open (and staffed) for 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Of course, you are welcome to purchase any materials that you feel the need to, but these resources are included in your (exorbitantly high) tuition. Please take advantage of them. Alternatively, download any freeware that you think would be helpful to your studies. No, we probably do not use it on computers in our offices because we are often limited to installing software given to us by the campus computer cops.

Uh, nope. Try again. Sure, maybe some colleges are open, MAYBE staffed 24/7, but at the college I was at, you could not get into the computer lab on weekends, or in the evening. My girlfriend's college had only one on her entire campus that was open 24 hours a day, and it was unstaffed, just had a student sitting at a desk.

SRanney wrote: 2/ Lots of you like pretty pictures and prefer that faculty give you or post online the notes you should have taken in class. As a result, many faculty have chosen to use a program called PowerPoint to convey graphical and textual material to you that you should have received in class. While PowerPoint may seem obtrusive to many, the program is installed on most (if not all) of the computers on campus referenced in point 1 immediately above. PowerPoint slide shows can easily be converted into a .pdf document using the program itself or any other number of "freeware" programs. Converting a .ppt slideshow to .pdf will allow you to view the slideshow without having to install PowerPoint. Ask the computer lab staffers how to do this. These resources are included in your (exorbitantly high) tuition.

But it is up to the professor to decide if they want to cave in to these requests. Some professors can use Powerpoint well, some can't. Not all of us are lazy.

SRanney wrote: 3/ Textbooks are expensive. Most of us would rather not force you to buy the $125 20lb tome, but according to the curriculum developers, we are required to use this in our class. Also, sorry about the whole pay-per-semester website thing. Apparently, the new generation of students ("the millenials") demands instant access, instant feedback, lots of colorful pictures, and instant gratification. The only way we can provide these instant resources for you is to require you to use the website of the publisher.

But, shouldn't it also be required that you are familiar with the website as well, so that you are able to tell whether it will actually help or do any good to the students?

SRanney wrote:4/ If you can find a better price for the textbooks we require you to use, by all means buy the textbook at the lower price. Just tell us during the first week of class that your textbook (which you purchased for less than half of what the university bookstore is selling it for) hasn't arrived yet. We'll be more than happy to let you photocopy (at the cost of your time and expense, and only when it is convenient for us) the necessary pages out of our book until yours arrives. This does not, however, mean that you can just "borrow" our copy indefinitely.

I've had a professor that wouldn't do the copy thing, and was getting impatient about waiting for the book to arrive while she knew that I had it on order. Additionally, this professor had done good ol' bloke's #4.

SRanney wrote: 5/ Publishers can really suck some times. Please don't blame us when the publishers of a text book come out with a new version. We really can't do anything about it.

But you as the professor should be familiar enough with the book to know what the changes are, if there are any significant changes in the book. We shouldn't have to buy a new book JUST BECAUSE THE PAGE NUMBERS CHANGED, addition of these "pretty pictures" you claim that we like, or just because the pictures did change.

I graduated in '09 from college and my girlfriend is currently in college. Neither of us really care about these "pretty pictures" you claim we do. And I've gotten highly frustrated with the change of books that the class does just for the heck of it. The books that I had to buy in college, I haven't even touched since college, save for my woodwind repair manual, but I actually find that book useful. Every other book I had to use in college would barely be useful to line a bird cage. When I went to sell my useless books back to the bookstore worth $$$ each new, they would only buy one back and only gave me $ for it.
so uh...many things, in my experiences, that SRanney said aren't necessarily true.
tubaguy "who just finished koledge and has a girlfriend in kolej" 9

tubaguy9 wrote: Uh, nope. Try again. Sure, maybe some colleges are open, MAYBE staffed 24/7, but at the college I was at, you could not get into the computer lab on weekends, or in the evening. My girlfriend's college had only one on her entire campus that was open 24 hours a day, and it was unstaffed, just had a student sitting at a desk.

"Many" is not defined as all but generally means "some number less than the whole". Bummer that your college didn't have 24/7 computer labs, but by your own admission, you and your girlfriend still had the resources available to you.

tubaguy9 wrote: But it is up to the professor to decide if they want to cave in to these requests. Some professors can use Powerpoint well, some can't. Not all of us are lazy.

You inferred laziness from my post. The vast majority of the students in the millenial generation have an expectation that things should be handed to them with little effort on their part. It's not laziness; it's an expectation. You're right in that many faculty members are inept when it comes to presenting information effectively in PowerPoint. Many use it quite well. Rather than complaining about using PowerPoint, ask the professor if they'd convert it to .pdf before they post it online.

tubaguy9 wrote: But, shouldn't it also be required that you are familiar with the website as well, so that you are able to tell whether it will actually help or do any good to the students?

You must not be familiar with the concept of curriculum. Many classes are the basis for future courses. As a result, faculty must be able to make it through the required curriculum. Trying to get students to actually LEARN the required material would take much more time than is available in a given semester. Thus, faculty resort to using the "gimmicks" that most current students demand.

tubaguy9 wrote:I've had a professor that wouldn't do the copy thing, and was getting impatient about waiting for the book to arrive while she knew that I had it on order. Additionally, this professor had done good ol' bloke's #4.

Bummer. That sure does suck. Not ever professor is as sneaky as bloke (and you, apparently) thinks.

tubaguy9 wrote:But you as the professor should be familiar enough with the book to know what the changes are, if there are any significant changes in the book. We shouldn't have to buy a new book JUST BECAUSE THE PAGE NUMBERS CHANGED, addition of these "pretty pictures" you claim that we like, or just because the pictures did change.

So professors should be familiar with every change in each new addition of a given textbook? Wow. The content in an introductory biology or general chemistry course won't change, but to ask every faculty member to know the changes in textbooks from edition to edition is pretty ridiculous. Even faculty members get upset when editions change. Just when they get to know the book, the publisher changes it. Page numbers and end-of-chapter homework problems change. That's about it. You don't have to buy a new book; you can use the old one and recognize that it may take you longer to find the "correct" page number or you can rent a book from a number of different companies.

tubaguy9 wrote:Neither of us really care about these "pretty pictures" you claim we do. And I've gotten highly frustrated with the change of books that the class does just for the heck of it.

Congratulations. You're not representative of the millenial generation. Edition changes are not just for the heck of it. Publishers generally buy the books back that they don't want to sell in order to force universities--not professors--to use their new editions.

tubaguy9 wrote:The books that I had to buy in college, I haven't even touched since college, save for my woodwind repair manual, but I actually find that book useful. Every other book I had to use in college would barely be useful to line a bird cage.

I still use lots of my textbooks from my MS degree and even a few from my undergraduate degree. Granted, I was taking biology, chemistry, and statistics courses so I use these textbooks mainly as references on an (almost) daily basis.

tubaguy9 wrote:When I went to sell my useless books back to the bookstore worth $$$ each new, they would only buy one back and only gave me $ for it.

Welcome to capitalism. Buy low, sell high.

tubaguy9 wrote:so uh...many things, in my experiences, that SRanney said aren't necessarily true.

You and I obviously have different experiences. Hence, they were true for me but not for you.


duty_calls by steven.ranney, on Flickr

tubaguy9 wrote:tubaguy "who just finished koledge and has a girlfriend in kolej" 9

Congratulations!

DonShirer wrote:Like it or not, many schools have standardized on Word if not the Office suite.

That doesn't compel an instructor to distribute materials in a Microsoft proprietary format, it only provides a (poor) excuse for doing so.

Don't like college? Don't go.

The systems at work in higher academia are far from perfect, but instead of complaining about them, I got by, using them to my advantage when I could. I speak only for myself and from my experience.