TubeNet

Not looking to play this game, but real or not...

-- It's enjoyable to listen to.
-- It's not enjoyable to watch.

Joe, I don't think it's fake. These HS bands (wind orchestras?) in Japan are way above any other HS bands in the world. I'm not familiar with the Osaka Toin High School Band, but last year our community band (Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches) shared the stage with another HS band from Japan last year... the Inagakuen Wind Orchestra. This is one of the top student groups in Japan. The sold-out crowd was blown away by their performance. What a sound, what discipline, what dedication these students showed. Every student sat at the edge of their chair, every music stand at the same height, no one tapping their foot (talk about deportment), and their sound... WOW! Their intonation was excellent so you could hear the overtones lining up. Sounded like a pipe organ! There were 8 tubas!

This recording of "Olympiada" (by Samuel Hazo) was recorded at Lake Mary H.S... the day before they performed with us in Palm Beach Gardens, FL. I was in the audience as I had been on the 'injured reserve list' for awhile, so it was a real treat for me.

Olympiada

There were 96 musicians, Sophomores and Juniors — and mostly girls. Their Seniors were back in Japan studying for their end of the year exams. The concert started at 7:30 with us on stage first — sure glad we went first . These students started rehearsing and warming up at 4:30 with long breathing exercises, singing, and rehearsing the choreography they needed for other pieces when moving their instruments all around.

Here's another video of their tubas showing off:
We Want to Stand out Too - "Tip Toe Through the Tulips"
...recorded via cell phone so not terrific

One thing I learned recently is that the high schools in Japan require each student to pick an activity... band, chorus, chess, etc. They're required to spend two to three hours each day AFTER school on this activity. The bands work on these pieces for quite some time to get them perfect. A lot of the time they've memorized their parts too.

No, I think the video is real.

Why doesn't this thread have a poll?

bloke wrote:

Uncle Buck wrote:Why doesn't this thread have a poll?

' sorry for the oversight...' remedied.

btw. This audio is real, but the video is fake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxIbsXh88DU

bloke "the clarinets are Yamaha's"

Thanks. I have now voted.

All I can say is that the fingering for the instruments I know how to play looks ok, but I agree that the soloists don't appear to be working that hard. At any rate this is a remarkable collection of instrumentalists for a high school, and I can imagine it takes 3 hours of practice a day to learn that "choreography". And is it my imagination, or does one of the tubists look older than high school age?

Hello, Bloke:
Let me definitively answer this "mystery" for you, since it is my company that produces these videos. It is "real" of course. You are watching the national finals of the All Japan Band Contest, held at Fumon Hall in Tokyo, home of the Tokyo Kosei Wind Orchestra. Typically a number of those musicians serve as adjudicators. Perhaps you know the fine euphonium player from TKWO, Toru Miura, founding member of the ITEA. He will be at Midwest Clinic this year, you can speak to him about your concept of fake recordings from Japan. You might also talk to Ray Cramer and Richard Crain, Past/current Presidents of Midwest Clinic, Arnald Gabriel, Eugene Corporon, Linda Moorhouse, James Barnes, James Swearingen, Stephen Melillo, John Mackey, and dozens of other composers and directors who have conducted high school and junior high bands of this caliber in Japan. We also support Japanese school bands on tour of America, and had 5 such ensembles visiting America last year. Its a real shame you were not at Midwest Clinic to hear the Seika Girls High School Band. Col. Waite (AF Band) conducted them at Midwest, and Col. Gabriel directed them in Virginia. All of these folks are quite familiar with the legitimacy of the Japanese Band movement.
We also sponsor a director and musician's tour to Tokyo to see the contests, and it seems imperative that you go there to hear this for yourself. I see you are from west Tennessee...please speak with Cathy Williams at West Memphis HS, who hosted the Joso Gakuen HS Band when she was ABA president, and attended this same contest event you are questioning. Also, please visit our American website at bravomusicinc.com You will be especially intrigued with the Elementary Band national finals. It is one of the most amazed music events I have seen, as a conductor and educator. For your comfort, it is all true and legitimate, and as many say, "I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't have seen it myself." There are very good reasons why these bands play like this, and I will be glad to share the philsophy and methodology with you. I will assure you, though, it is always a labor of love, as ALL of these student musicians are volunteers in their after school club, as are the directors. I'll share as much with you as you wish to accept.
Mark Humphreys, Director, Bravo Music, Inc./Div. Brain Co. Ltd., Japan

No matter if the band can actually play at this calibre or not; this video is most likely a fake recording. I could imagine that the ensemble is of that playing capacity. More likely than not this video was recorded during a real performance. But what seems to have happened is that the recording was later substituted with a more balanced audio recording. This recording is probably by the same ensemble, but in my opinion is seems likely that the they recorded many renditions of the piece and just added the production of the best stereo recording on the best live rendition. The balance seems to good be from a live recording. Also, as some of you have pointed out, the trombone slides, the timpani rolls and the different postures seem to indicate that the resulting sound would be completely different.

Sushi...I chose sushi....

Why the ***** do they bob,weave and move around so much ? *** **** that's realy ****ing annoying !

KiltieTuba wrote:

Rick F wrote:Joe, I don't think it's fake. (...) I'm not familiar with the Osaka Toin High School Band, (...) No, I think the video is real.

No offense, but your whole reply wasn't to the video, but to your own experience. Indeed there are other standards for schools in Japan, but that's not the topic on hand. Bloke is just seeing what people think of the video he posted. You haven't really pointed out why you think the recording is original or if it is dubbed over with another audio track.

I don't think the audio is from the video, if it is... where is this hall and why aren't we copying its structure!
The oboe at about 5:00 sounds almost unreal for what the kid is playing. It's a bit too clear.
The whole recording equipment seems lacking considering how full each instrument sounds - you can hear each instrument as though it was recorded individually. Other major/professional orchestra/bands don't seem to have this sound when live.

Sorry, but I was trying to say that these students are capable of playing like this and don't need to be lip-syncing or to be dubbed. That's why I shared "my own experience" as you pointed out. Bloke suggested that some other group's recording was used... maybe a military band. How could you do that and have it match the timing of all the instruments as they're playing? The tempos would never line up right with the video. When I watch and listen to the video, the fingerings match what I'm hearing. The trombone slide action looks correct to me (they're playing chromatic runs at 1:00). YouTube (or AdobeFlash player) is not perfect and the synchronization could depend on your internet speed. The tympani/percussion action match what I hear. The oboe at 3:00 is perfect — even his fingered turn matches the turn in the phrase. The English horn (not oboe) at 5:00 looks right to me too. You can't see his right hand as it's behind the stand. I'm sure the recording was edited or balanced some here and there as there was more than one mic used. I see two mics on stage and two overhead.

I'm sure it's all real and legit. These students can really play. My hat's off to them for doing such a great job. I know they really work hard in trying to get all their performances perfect.

No real concrete evidence of what was "real". You haven't really talked about the video in question; you've merely said who you are and who to talk to, yet gave no indication why the video doesn't correspond with the audio. Furthermore, as more of a critique, you've only now joined to respond to one post and clearly posted your name and job title, yet chose a username that is rather dubious and could be anyone... troll, maybe, but it could be you.

Hello, Joe et al:

Mark Humphreys, Director, Bravo Music, Inc. (954) 571-8427. Call me tomorrow if you wish. Our DVD product that was borrowed from is BOD-3097 "Japan's Best 2010" Senior High Division. It features 10 of the "gold" (superior) rated bands at the All Japan Band Contest finals. Our production staff in Hiroshima examined the DVD product as well as the You-tube posting. Yes, the sound was rather poor on youtube, and there were some sync issues, but nothing to the extreme. We will guarantee to you that our DVD is night and day better than these postings, which is the most annoying thing about seeing them, other than the copyright violation. Nonetheless, there is some room for synchronization error with digital audio/video mixing, including 1) there are inherent lags between digital audio and video mixes, just like on your new digi tv, 2) our recording in Fumon is done by a 5-camera live mix fed by a house sound patch, edited live, with absolutely NO post-production editing. The three main balcony cameras are about 60 meters from the bands. Its quite a challenge to produce. 3) One-off CDs can be bought on the spot, as several dealers sell them, plus ourselves. The videos are preordered and produced after art and chapters are created. In both instances, what you saw and heard is what you get.

The reason I gave a list of American conductors and composers you might consult with is that they know from personal experience and observation that it is inconceivable in the Japanese setting, and in the framework of the All Japan Band Association (sort of like our MENC) that there be any manipulation of recorded documents like this. The 2500 people in the audience (always sold out) witness this, and if anyone can truly, honestly, sincerely find a momentary digital mis-match between sound and picture, it is only that.

For those who scoff, my own story is this: in 1986 I was given a Sony LP of that year's AJBC HS division. As a high school director, I couldn't imagine the clarity of sound, and the blend. I assumed that Sony had some sort of processor to fix intonation. I asked Fred Fennell about this, he introduced me to some prominent Japanese band folks, I went over and visited rehearsals, concerts, and finally the AJBC. It was all true, and remarkably so. Astoundingly so. This is why you need to talk to people who go there, or better yet, go there yourself. It is totally, completely inconceivable that there are tricks, conspiracies, manipulations, none of this. Totally preposterous. Please take the time to speak to those who know. For these reasons, I began inviting American directors to Japan, to visit rehearsals and see the national contests. Without fail, with the first notes jaws drop, then staring in disbelief, then 8 hours of broad smiles and nodding heads.

There are very good reasons why these band clubs do this, and aspire to perfection. Of the 13,000 bands there, this is a small minority, but they are revered throughout the country for what they do. The methods are simple: endless time and strict adhearance to the "basic fundamentals". As an educator and conductor I think it is a great situation, because I have seen the dedication and sincerity of the students. Its not coercion..they are all volunteers. Its a rare situation that few people have the time to create, but it is still real, and sincere. If you are a dedicated musician, please take the time to find these truths out for yourselves. I've been working on it since I heard that first recording. Thanks for your space. Mark

bloke wrote:The audio track of this band does not sound like extraordinary students; Rather, it sounds like professional adults

I'd disagree. There were just enough clams and funky intonation to convince me these weren't professionals. If it's the real deal, it's mighty impressive.

Hats off to them for an excellent and enjoyable performance! Thanks for the link Bloke

Fake, I do not see any reason to suppose so.

1 vote for fake.

Why the Reader's Digest version of Verdi's Requiem? Surely they can handle entire movements if they are playing to this level.

And again, Bloke is asking about the video, not whether there exists a superior band program in Japan. BTW, if they are practicing 3 hours everyday after school, of course they're going to sound that good.

The fake emoting is annoying. It's as if they've transferred some of that drum and bugle corps choreography to the concert hall.

My high school band was one of the best in the state. I have tapes to prove it. They didn't sound like this. I'm not talking the recording quality; I'm talking the overall effect. I'm with bloke. Way too much processing for the video to be that particular high school band, and just too many forced nuances and slight mis-syncs from all around.

FAKE!

If that one's fake, then probably all the other 'related videos' would be as well (i.e.: any Japanese high school contest vids). There are a bunch of other astounding ones, too:

http://youtu.be/SL-1w6zRvGQ" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank Carmina Burana
http://youtu.be/r3wxElf10kU" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank Alpensinfonie
http://youtu.be/SAlekKiAkRg" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank Feste Romane
http://youtu.be/NfyPvw6kgpA" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank Salome's Dance

Are they all fake? Or do they just have kick-*** band programs there?

An aside...

Back in December, I saw a HS band (not the one from this video) from Japan play here in NY at Carnegie Hall. It was some sort of Japan/NYC arts partnership event, so if they were coming from across the world, I'm sure it was a selective membership group. They were really good, though I remember thinking "they are great for a HS band!" They did not sound perfect like this video, nor did they sound professional. There were some missed notes, some problem spots/imprecision, and they sounded like a bunch of really good kids playing (i.e., physically not grown enough to have the air support and strength to sound like adult professionals). That said... they were really good, and looked normal too... none of this bopping/weaving/making circles with your instrument stuff from this video.

I guess the only way to be certain is for one, or more Tubenetters to attend the All Japan Band Contest live this year and report back.

I would love to go - they all look and sound incredible - much more enjoyable that a Brass band contest here in the UK

Neptune wrote: much more enjoyable that a Brass band contest here in the UK

Jonathan!!!! Wash your mouth out!!!!!

I want to believe.

Dance Folatre:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu5N6-2gNqE" target="_blank" target="_blank
http://youtu.be/kg1eFmSbXw8" target="_blank" target="_blank
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcslrGhv3h4" target="_blank" target="_blank
http://youtu.be/FDnG9ZhIuzE" target="_blank" target="_blank

There sure do seem to be a lot of these recordings online. Sure, it could all be one elaborate hoax to convince youtube of Japanese HS band supremacy, but I think the simplest explanation applies: there are some really good HS bands in Japan.