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Listening to Lohengrin in the car to keep me entertained on my longish daily commute. After hearing the actual version of the tune in the title of the post, I'm imploring every one who may be playing this in your various bands to remember;

IT IS A PROCESSIONAL, NOT A DEATH MARCH

I am so sick of this piece being played so freaking slow, I could scream. This work, along with Reed's setting of "Greensleeves", sinks into a miasma of nebulous tonality and tone quality if done at "Tempo De Chin Drag". Think about it, some of you have played either of these works at tempos so ridiculously slow that they lose all form and substance.

Rant Over.

Chuck

P.S.- The audience really doesn't like either work if it drags on. Trust me, I have done the "watch" watch.

bloke wrote:btw...
Mrs. bloke's doberman's name is Elsa.

And she probably has more sense than some of the Wind conductors I have seen.

Chuck

Interesting! I've never sought out many recordings of this, I have the Eastman/Fennell recording of this, and never felt a need to look elsewhere.

But I just poked around on Youtube, and some of these recordings are comically slow. The Baylor Wind Ensemble recording especially, comes in over 9 minutes. The sound is fantastic, but I kept thinking "get on with it!" It was painful.

Eastman was a little over 6 minutes, and a US Marine Band recording I have is a little under 6. A recording from when I played it is only a little over 5 minutes.

PS -- this is also a dangerous piece for 1) intonation and 2) too loud too soon.

Bloke, your wife and I have something in common, besides both knowing you. Here's my Elsa.

I'm amused that Chuck seems to think that tuba players have any decision-making ability in this regard at all. You're preaching to the choir here, my friend.

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:I'm amused that Chuck seems to think that tuba players have any decision-making ability in this regard at all. You're preaching to the choir here, my friend.

Sanity has to start somewhere. Why not with the tubas.

Chuck

From a letter attributed to Wagner-

The particular atmosphere which my Lohengrin should produce is that here we see before us an ancient German kingdom in its finest, most ideal aspect. Here no one does anything out of mere routine and court custom, but in every encounter the participants take a direct and genuinely personal part; here there is no despotic pomp which has its “bodyguards” (oh! oh!) and orders the ‘people pushed back’ to form a ‘lane’ for the high nobility … I beg of you, for God’s sake, take out that awful stuff with the masters of ceremonies, marshals, bodyguards, etc.: they must have no further place here. Let my Lohengrin be beautiful, but not ostentatious …
Elsa must—on the high ground before the palace—actually come to a stop. She is moved and affected, as if overcome by bliss. Only after 8 measures does she once more proceed very slowly toward the cathedral, sometimes, pausing, cordially and naively acknowledging greetings. Not only does it take shape this way, but it actually becomes what I intended it to be; namely, no march-like procession, but the infinitely significant advance of Elsa to the altar.

Note that "come to a stop", "proceed very slowly", "no march-like procession"...

Wagner wrote it SLOW . He intended it to drag.

Chuck Jackson wrote: I am so sick of this piece being played so freaking slow, I could scream.

+1

Wagner's music is better than it sounds. Mark Twain

MikeW wrote:Note that "come to a stop", "proceed very slowly", "no march-like procession"...

Wagner wrote it SLOW . He intended it to drag.

Hmmm. I guess the conductors on the recordings I own were disinclined, thankfuly, to heed Wagner's advice. Most of them get through that portion of the scene QUICKLY. It is trivial music for a trivial portion of the opera. I guess what irks me is that so many "wind-band" conductors have no idea of the context of the work, thus they commit the ultimate sin of podium self gratification.

I find it particularly ironic that the Prelude to Act 3 does not lead into something heroic, but directly to the "Here Comes the Bride" segment. I laugh everytime I listen to the opera.

Chuck"who really dislikes any Wagner, except the Overtures, out of context, thus I listen to the Ring Cycle, and not the Recycled Ring about once every 2 years and find more enjoyment in the music 99.9% of the world DOESN'T know more than the stuff they do."Jackson

Chuck Jackson wrote: I guess what irks me is that so many "wind-band" conductors have no idea of the context of the work, thus they commit the ultimate sin of podium self gratification.

Comfort yourself with the thought that if it's being played by a wind band, the original context is irrelevant, it has to stand in the program on its own merits. Unfortunately, many conductors believe the program notes and take it dragissimo (I believe the notes say "slow, definitely no faster than 80") . Unfortunately, this is one of those perennials that crawls out of the library every 5 years or so and from where I sit it is boring, boring, boring...

But there are worse pieces: a band I quit (for obvious reasons) spent half of every rehearsal for five years schooling the woodwinds on Respighi's "Pines of Rome". They never got past the point where they set my teeth on edge (or is it written that way ?). After the other tuba quit in disgust, I had a free choice in the divisi sections between the boring part and the tedious part. Now that really is a podium sin. I no longer play with that band (despite being ordered back into action by the second flute).
Edit: I just checked on U-tube - the piece I loathed was a wind-band arrangement of "The Appian Way". It would have been less detestable if the arranger had not moved the original tymp part over to the tubas.

I love to play the wind band version of this piece. I get excited just thinking about it. I like MM=70

Chuck Jackson wrote:

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:I'm amused that Chuck seems to think that tuba players have any decision-making ability in this regard at all. You're preaching to the choir here, my friend.

Sanity has to start somewhere. Why not with the tubas.

Chuck

for all the possible places where sanity might begin, tuba seems the least likely...