not so magnificent

[Dan Schultz]

It's pretty sad when us dumb-assed old folks can't even enjoy the evening out. My wife and I used to visit Chicago several times a year just to walk Michigan Avenue from The Pier to Buchingham Park. Not any more!

[tbn.al]

The ASO built one out in the burbs but it has kind of been a bust financially. Of course it is an outdoor venue which is not exactly what you are talking about. The Atlanta Ballet now uses a facility in the next county North of downtown, 12 miles maybe, and it has really gone over well. I like it of course for the very reasons you listed, and its closer to my house.

[tofu]

As various cities fathers don't see "crime", "violence", and urban congestion as problems, isn't it about time to build new concert halls out PAST the burbs...maybe even off in adjacent counties, etc... (getting folks driving AWAY from traffic jams, AWAY from $35 parking, and TOWARDS beautiful rural, safe, wooded settings ?

How about combination PAC concert halls with accompanying ("down the path through the trees") covered stages (ref: Ravinia, Kresge, etc.) out AWAY from cities, instead of down at crime/parking-ripoff central ?

To quote the late Mayor Richard J. Daley: Gentlemen, let's get the thing straight, once and for all. The policeman isn't there to create disorder; the policeman is there to preserve disorder.

There are halls out in the suburbs - The CSO started doing concerts a few years ago in the new hall we use. We are about 25 miles west of the city. The problem is that that it's hard to build a hall big enough to generate the kind of revenue needed to meet the payroll a group the size of the CSO with the average salary they have and still have reasonable ticket prices. It is a much more intimate setting - but the tickets are $150 or $250 because there are maybe 700 seats. Acoustics are great and the sight lines are excellent. If you build a bigger hall you need to find a lot of acts that can fill it and pay for it. There is a vacuum of halls between 1500 and 20,000 seats. The big rock groups need/want 15,000 - 20,000 but that is a big expensive venue that you need to fill a lot of times. There are a lot of groups that will fill a 600-800 size hall. That 1500 - 2500 seems to be an elusive size outside of symphonic groups like the CSO.

As far as a covered venue the size of Ravinia - that is going to be unbelievabley expensive these days. You need to go 75 miles from the city to find that amount of land at a reasonable price. Heck even in my suburb finding a few acres together is so scarce that the local school district is trying to muscle a local university for land for a middle school that the university has a bookstore and maintenance facility on. It has gotten so nasty that the school board is threatening to use eminent domain. The problem is that the university (unlike a private citizen) has its own unique defenses. So finding enough land at a reasonable price that is close to highways and public transit to build a covered venue with year round parking is going to be a challenge. Don't forget a large part of the CSO audience resides downtown and a lot don't have a car. Even Ravinia sees a lot of its summer patrons get off the train that stops right at the park.

[bort]

I've lived on the east coast my whole life, and it would never really work here...because if you drive 30 minutes in another direction, you are in another city.

I think more good things need to be in the city, instead of ripping the few remaining good things out to the suburbs too.

[b.williams]

I've lived on the east coast my whole life, and it would never really work here...because if you drive 30 minutes in another direction, you are in another city.

I think more good things need to be in the city, instead of ripping the few remaining good things out to the suburbs too.

The point is that city folk consistently elect rulers who won't take care of the cancers of which cities suffer, so...

...isn't it time to dismiss fallen-to-ashes cities, and look elsewhere for sublimity ?

Aren't most old concert halls, geographically, now mostly surrounded by those who don't even know that an orchestra and a concert hall even exist ?

The answer is/was and always will be men/women like ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

[tofu]

I've lived on the east coast my whole life, and it would never really work here...because if you drive 30 minutes in another direction, you are in another city.

I think more good things need to be in the city, instead of ripping the few remaining good things out to the suburbs too.

The point is that city folk consistently elect rulers who won't take care of the cancers of which cities suffer, so...

Not all the time. Despite some of his meant with good intentions, but goofy ideas like banning large soda pop containers - Mayor Bloomberg of NYC has certainly turned things around there. Many had thrown in the towel on NYC. In Chicago Rahm Emanuel has certainly taken on all comers. His former chief of staff is a personal friend of mine and I've met Rahm a few times. He is a smart tough "street smarts" kind of guy. He has taken on the unions big time - including the entrenched teachers union, the public works unions and the police/fire unions and he has made major strides. Especially not easy to do when you wear the Union Approved Democrat Label. He inherited some very difficult problems of which the root causes are complex and not easily solved, but he is very resolved to do so. And lets face it there is crime and decay and bad evil people everywhere - including rural America - but when bad things happen out in Backwater USA they don't make the six o'clock news -unless they are way out of the ordinary.

...isn't it time to dismiss fallen-to-ashes cities, and look elsewhere for sublimity ?

Hell No! Cities matter and the proof in the pudding is people are moving back to the city. There are solid reasons for this. Are there places where it is scorched earth? Sure - just look at Detroit which got hit with a tsunami of bad. Bad politicians and bad decisions both public and private. Automotive built it and they were so tied to the auto business that the downfall of automotive was like jumping out of a window holding an anchor. No place to hide.

Aren't most old concert halls, geographically, now mostly surrounded by those who don't even know that an orchestra and a concert hall even exist ?

Well since your topic started out on the Mag Mile / Chicago it would be logical to talk about the home of the CSO - Orchestra Hall. It is a very vibrant place/area and you couldn't be more wrong about it being surrounded by people who don't know that an orchestra and concert hall exist. It is an anchor within a very vibrant arts and museum area. The world famous Art Institute an easy walk up the street, a little farther the Chicago Cultural Center, a little more walking and you have the Museum of Contemporary Art. Go the opposite direction from Orchestra Hall and you have the museum campus a few blocks away including the Field Museum, Shedd Aquarium, Adler Planetarium and the Museum of Science and Industry. Not to mention numerous other museums in the area, both the tremendous Millenium Park and Grant Park across the street - hugging the open and forever free beautiful lakefront.

[tofu]

(previous post hidden from view)

It is my believe that there IS a STRONG market for Bach, Beethoven, Brahms (as well as Respighi, Ravel, etc.) It's just not worth the inconvenience and risk for much of the market to go to the dysfunctionally-located marketplace.

IF this huge market for the the 3B's plus Rsquared etc. exists and they only don't come because of the "inconvenience factor" then it would seem that pent up demand for this music would result in exploding sales of recorded classical music. That does not seem to be the case - do you have concrete evidence to present that shows otherwise?

Since Mr. Free Markets you feel so strongly that if they build it they will come why don't you build a bunch of conveniently accessible halls and reap the windfall profits that are sure to come your way